Sunny & 65 with Madi Schultz
Join Madi Schultz as she imperfectly pursues Jesus and emphatically encourages you to do the same. Through scripture, conversations, and testimonies— Madi's prayer is that you would walk away from listening to each episode with a greater affection for Jesus + experience the freedom He has for you in deeper ways.
| madi@sunnyand65.com | @madelinschultz_ | @mackandbenj
Sunny & 65 with Madi Schultz
Episode 71: Cheyenne Boluyt
It was SUCH a joy to chat with Cheyenne Boluyt. She is a mother of three girls and the Director of Women's Ministry at her church in Michigan. She shares about God meeting her in the darkest time of her life through His Word and His people and I won't ever forget what she shared. She is also passionate about bible literacy, cultural analysis(what are you worshipping?), and lament as the path to joy. This gal loves God and that is evident!!! I'm so excited for you to hear this episode! Enjoy!
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FROM THE EPISODE:
#SA65Bookclub Book of the Month for May: Amy Carmichael: Rescuer of Precious Gems
Desiring the Kingdom: Worship, Worldview, and Cultural Formation by James K.A. Smith
Church History in Plain Language by Bruce L. Shelley
https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/
Church History by Simonetta Car
Corrie Ten Boom Children's Book
A Long Obedience in the Same Direction: Discipleship in an Instant Society by Eugene Peterson
Father, Let Your Kingdom Come by The Porters Gate
No One Ever Cared for Me Like Jesus by Steffany Gretzinger
OTHER FUN THINGS:
MADISCHULTZ.CO
My Favorite Things
Glory Presets
MUST-READ Books
30% Off Lifetime Subsc. to Dwell Bible App
The Daily Grace Co.
Hey friends, welcome back to the Sunning 65 podcast. I'm your host, Maddie Schultz, and today I'm joined by Cheyenne Beloy, and we cover so many things how God showed up in her darkest season of life, lamenting as the path to joy, church history and more. I also share some fun announcements at the end. Enjoy this combo, Hi, Cheyenne. Welcome to the podcast.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Hi, maddie, thanks so much for having me.
Madi Schultz:So this is Cheyenne and I's first time meeting virtually, that is, but I already feel like Cheyenne has discipled me through her emails, so I am so excited for this conversation, cheyenne, can you tell us? Oh, and Cheyenne and I got connected through a past guest, anne Swindell. You came with just so much praise and I'm so excited about this conversation. So, cheyenne, can you tell us the quick gist about yourself?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yes for sure. Well, we live in West Michigan and so that's how I know Anne, if you listened to her episode, we are really close friends and so it's a joy to get to do life with her and her family. And so, yeah, I am the women's director at our church and I just like on the daily and, like you're, you're gonna write me a paycheck for studying scripture, teaching women the word studying and talking with women, for growing. It's just, it's such a gift from the Lord that I get to do that for my job, yeah, yeah. And then I have three, three kiddos, and so really discipling them, raising them when I'm not working at the church, that's where I pour my time and my life and my energy into.
Madi Schultz:Amazing. Are you from Michigan originally?
Cheyenne Boluyt:No, so I'm from Iowa. No way, we're in.
Madi Schultz:Iowa. I'm from Iowa, stop Waterloo. Okay, I'm from Ankeny. I've been to Waterloo oh my gosh.
Cheyenne Boluyt:My parents went to college in Ankeny. They went to.
Madi Schultz:Faith. They went to Faith. Oh, my goodness, that's awesome, wow, okay, two Iowans, here we are. Who knew here we are? I?
Cheyenne Boluyt:love it. That's crazy, oh my word. So yeah, lived to the first like six years of my life in Iowa, then moved to Maryland and was there until like junior high, and so I've been in Michigan since then. But if you're from West Michigan you know that that doesn't really mean you're like from West.
Madi Schultz:Michigan? Okay, I love that. Okay, do you like Michigan, or have you grown?
Cheyenne Boluyt:to love it. I love Michigan, I love.
Madi Schultz:Michigan.
Cheyenne Boluyt:I feel like that's one of the things like about Michigan, is you just like fall in love with it and people try to leave, but then they come back because it's just beautiful.
Madi Schultz:I love that. I love that. Okay, cheyenne, tell us about when you came to know and follow Jesus.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, so I have always had praise the Lord like a knowledge of who he is. I grew up being discipled and so I mean, when I was probably like four or five, I remember being in my room and like talking to my mom about it and saying a prayer and I truly believe in that moment like the Lord began regenerating my heart and turning my heart towards him and turning my heart towards him, and so for me that was I know not everyone has just like a moment of salvation, but I think for me that's kind of the moment that stands out to me which was really providential, because my family walked through a lot of tumultuous times through the next like five years of my life as a very young kid, and so to have the presence of the Lord with me, like through those experiences, uh was obviously just priceless, um, such a gift. And then I think another just kind of like markable moment for me was, uh, in high school, you know I was, I was angsty, um just like okay, what's what's the world, like what? And I kind of I had this season where I had to try to keep I tried to keep my toes in both, both palms a little bit and praise the Lord.
Cheyenne Boluyt:I had a small group leader in my high school youth group who, like she was just not about that, like she was so loving there was never a doubt in my mind of her love for me cool, but she was just like you can't do that, like you're either in or you're out, like you don't have what you're doing now is not one of your options. Wow, and so um me. I think that was another just really defining moment in my walk with the Lord. Well, I think he began. I mean, he began his work before the foundations of the world, but he really began his work personally in me when I was very young. But then in high school, when it was kind of another like fork in the road moment, he provided just amazing godly influence to speak truth.
Madi Schultz:Wow, that's so sweet. Did you feel like you knew you wanted to do ministry then, or did you not ever think you'd be women's ministry leader?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Um, that's really funny. So I never thought I would go into ministry ever. I was like won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. There was a lot of um in my early childhood, a lot of hurt and pain from my parents being in vocational ministry. That just kind of left my family in some wreckage and um, I was very much like Nope, like I would say I don't know what I want to do, but I'm for sure not going into ministry. So you know the Lord has his ways.
Madi Schultz:Okay. When? When was the moment that did? Did you, did he put on your heart at your church? You're at now to step into that, or did someone seek you out? How did that then come about?
Cheyenne Boluyt:yeah. So, um, when we transitioned, so I had worked at our previous church, so straight out of college I actually went into working in vocational ministry. But that was always kind of I really just wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. I just want to stay home. But until we're ready to do this, there was this part-time ministry position and so I went ahead and I did that for a season and then I stepped out of vocational ministry to just raise babies, yeah, and loved it, and it was its own ministry.
Cheyenne Boluyt:But then we came into this church where we currently are at and I don't even know how, but like the women's ministry team because there was nobody on staff like asked me to join and I was like why are you asking me? I'm like 24 with little babies, like I feel so underqualified to like walk alongside and serve the women of this church. But I started doing that almost as soon as we came to this church and so through time it kind of turned into me leading the Bible studies and then starting just writing some Bible studies, teaching Bible studies, and doing that. And then, yeah, through time we came to a point where we were ready to hire somebody as the director of women's ministry and initially I was like, nope, that's not me, like I think that's somebody else I'm happy to support whoever the Lord has to come in.
Cheyenne Boluyt:But then, really, in the Lord's providence and in his timing, the spirit was just like I remember calling one of my friends and being like timing. The spirit was just like I remember calling one of my friends and being like is this crazy that I want to like, I feel like I want to apply for this, and she's like she starts crying and she goes. She's like on the search committee for this person and she starts crying and she goes. We were literally just talking I can't think of anybody else that we want to build and I was like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. Yeah, so in the Lord's providence, Amazing.
Madi Schultz:It's always the Lord's humor of like I never want to do this to then him bringing the desire you just like, stepping in and you're like, okay, why'd they ask me? But then clearly he's gifted you in it and then bringing the desire in your heart to then apply for that. That's encouraging to hear. If you're willing, would you tell us about a season of suffering and how you saw the Lord show up in it?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yes, absolutely Probably. For me, the most recent and the darkest was the collapse of my marriage. It was something that I was honestly, just completely blindsided by. I was unprepared for it and it really left me feeling just confused and scared and unsure of like everything that I thought I knew. Like, in my mind, this was the one constant thing other than the Lord in my life was my marriage, like that's what it is. And so when that was just gone in literally a moment, it was dark. It was really dark and hard.
Cheyenne Boluyt:But the biggest and most real way that I felt like I could um see and feel the Lord show up in that darkness um was through his people, like his people, they showed up and they took seriously his call to be with the brokenhearted, to minister to the hurting. And, yeah, I mean, within a day, meals started showing up on our front porch. I literally didn't cook a meal for like three months, I don't think and people started coming my two best friends, they literally rotated staying at my house. That makes me want to cry. Yeah, yeah, like I had cause I would wake up in the middle of the night, like it was just, like sleep was a vapor, like it didn't have and like they would just lay there with me. And I mean they had families of their own and they had they like they got a schedule together and they were going to be present with me. And my sweet friend she was like so sweet and pregnant and she literally like got on a plane and traveled across the country with me and my three girls to like just go be with my dad. Like the people of God, they really showed up. And I even have one memory of my friend I was laying in my bed, my bed's, like right by our kitchen, and my friend Erica, she's like we need ketchup and coffee. Like going through my cupboards, like just like I was never out of ketchup and coffee.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Wow, like the people of God enfolded us, and so that was one of the biggest ways that in that season I got to bear witness to. But even more than just like, even me my kids got to bear witness to, and to this day they talk about that Like they talk about how, when mommy was so sad, how, like the people of God came and they took care of them, and like how people we didn't even know were bringing us food. Yeah, and it matters, yeah, and so I think another huge way the billboard showed up and took care of us with me was through his word, in a moment where I found out that things were like worse than I even thought that they were like. The way that I remember describing it is like I felt pulverized, like I felt like you know, like when a steamroller goes over gravel and it just like gets smaller and smaller and smaller, like that's how I felt.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Um, and I honestly don't even remember memorizing the scripture, but I just remember being on my floor and the spirit brought Psalm 63 to my lips and like that was literally just my inhale and my exhale was like oh God, you are my God. Like my soul thirsts for you, my body longs for you in a dry and weary land where there is no water. I have seen you in the sanctuary, held your power and your glory, because your love is better than life, my lips will glorify you. And like I don't like I genuinely I don't remember memorizing this verse, but I did at some point, and the Spirit was like this is what you need right now. You need to remember.
Cheyenne Boluyt:This is what's true, and it was through kind of a combination of the two of these things then that continued to be the Lord's presence to me was within minutes of me kind of hitting the floor, texting my, my, my close people, um, that they started showing up and they literally just picked up my Bible and they just started reading through the Psalms.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Wow, that was it Like. I have this beautiful photo of me just like on the couch and my friends holding me and just passing around the Bible, like reading the truth of God's word, like nobody tried to say anything else, nobody tried to make it better, nobody tried to talk circles around the situation. They just started reading the word and a couple different times I think, they started singing hymns over me, like and that was it and so, and that just kind of became the theme, like when there was like another milestone moment or another hard thing. They'd be like, okay, we're on our way, and they would come with their like bible in hand and just sit next to me and just start reading the psal. And so, yeah, I think his word and his people are the two main ways that in my darkest season, the Lord showed his presence.
Madi Schultz:Wow, thanks for your vulnerability to share that and that so many of those pictures are so powerful that you just shared the ketchup and coffee, like them helping tangibly and then like just feeding you God's word, like that's so encouraging and powerful. And then your daughter's wait, three daughters yes, your daughter's lives being shaped and changed through that too. So thanks for your vulnerability to share that. God has made you passionate about being in the word, like I mean you just shared how impactful that is and Bible literacy. Can you talk to us about why that is so important, so important?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, yeah. Well, I think one of the biggest things is because if we don't know God as he has revealed himself, we're going to begin to worship a God of our own making. We're not going to worship the God of the Bible. And when things get really hard, we have to know who God actually is. Because in that season there are moments where I felt like God wasn't good, or I felt like maybe God was holding out on me, or I felt like certain things. But I knew the truth of the word by his grace.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Praise the Lord that he is good. He is always good. Scripture tells us he is working all things out for the good of those that love him. And and that might not be like my definition of goodness, but really goodness is to be made into the image of Christ and Christ likeness. And so in those moments, I mean Jen Wilkin I really appreciate her teaching on a lot of this, but she talks about how we have to love God with our hearts.
Cheyenne Boluyt:I mean scripture talks about it, but she expounds on it how we have to love God with our hearts. I mean scripture talks about it, but she expounds on it how we have to love the Lord with our hearts and our minds and like the importance of that is like one is going to fail us sometimes and when we, when we don't know him as he has revealed himself, like then when we have sinned, if we think he's just full of harsh judgment, we're not going to go to him as he invites us to, as he's our good and our benevolent father, who is compassionate and slow to anger, and abounding and steadfast love and faithfulness. And so it's so important, I think primarily because then we ultimately begin to worship a God who's not actually God and I don't. To worship a God who's not actually God, yeah, and I don't. None of us want to do that, yeah, and so yeah, that's. That's kind of why I feel so passionately about about Bible literacy and knowing the word and knowing, knowing God as he has revealed himself.
Madi Schultz:Yeah, what you just touched on one, but are there more or expounding on that? Are there other risks that we do run if we aren't in the word and aren't biblically literate? What other ones come to mind along with that?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, yeah, I just obviously alluded to the that we're going to worship a God of our own making. We're not going to understand who we are Like, we only stand to. We only understand who we are in light of understanding who God is and I tell my girls kind of learn this almost catechism from the time they're little is who made you God. So who knows how you're going to work best, god? And we have ideas about how we think we're going to work best or other people should work best, and we just don't know what's best God does.
Cheyenne Boluyt:And it's going to leave us with a whole world of heartache and pain if we try to live how we think is best. Because, no matter what, whether you're a follower of Christ or not, the world is hard, yeah, like painful, and the joy of having Christ is knowing the eternal purposes of God, and like not being biblically literate to like we don't know that you wouldn't understand the end of the story, like this is our, this is like our hope, like our hope is in Jesus Christ and our hope, our hope, is that all that is wrong in this world will be made right one day. And so, yeah, those are just a few that kind of come to mind.
Madi Schultz:Yeah, what I'm hearing you saying is without one we'll worship a false God.
Madi Schultz:Two, if we're not biblically literate, we will not have a right view of ourselves.
Madi Schultz:And three, if we don't finish the story, maybe we have a right view of ourselves. But that's so sad because we don't know the gospel truth of no, we are undeserving, we are wretched, but we are clothed in Jesus's righteousness if our faith is in the cross, and then the hope is eternity with him. So I'm so encouraged by those three things because they're all important and then the hope is eternity with him. So I'm so encouraged by those three things because they're all important, and I'm sure there's more important risks that we run, but if we miss one we miss the hope of eternity. If we miss who God is, then we don't have a right view of ourselves, and so that's really encouraging. What do you feel like is a tangible piece of advice or helpful tips that you have for someone who is listening to this that either does long to be in the word on a consistent basis but struggles to do so, maybe, or someone that wants to dive into God's word for the first time but doesn't know where to start?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, I think for the person who's longing to be in the word consistently but struggles, I would say make a like attainable goal for yourself. Um, I think sometimes we're like I'm gonna, I've like never been consistent in the bible, so I'm gonna read through the whole bible in one year. I'm gonna be like bible in 90 days and it's like that really like helpful. If you've never, if it's been a challenge for you to be in scripture consistently, it'd be kind of like you know, I've never run a marathon but I'm just gonna get up and go and do it and like it's. It's hard. So pick, pick an attainable goal. Yeah, hopefully you can get to being in maybe new passages of scripture every day, but also like maybe it's sitting with a psalm for a week and letting the truth of that psalm like sink deep into your heart. I think we're such a goal oriented culture that it's like I gotta finish this book of the Bible or I've got to finish this reading plan. But slow growth is often good growth and so if you sit with a psalm for a week and like by the end of that, those seven days, you know God as he has revealed himself in that Psalm more than you did at the start of that week, like you are winning, yeah. And so I think, pick an attainable goal, figure out what that is for you and start there.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Reading the word in community, having accountability is huge. It's so helpful we are, we're we're meant to learn in more ways than just reading something, and so if we have someone we can engage with, that's going to help the truth actually just like practically sink in and also probably edify your sister in Christ, to be edified yourself in the conversation. And so I think it's really helpful to have someone else that knows that this is something you're going to do and can maybe either jump in with you or maybe they've already found something that works for them and can just encourage you to keep going and encourage you that it's worth it. That's what I would say to the person kind of struggling, and then I think it really depends on where you're at as to where to start, but I think a beautiful place to start is always the Gospels and just beholding Jesus. Who is Jesus? Because the Old Testament is pointing towards him and the rest of the New Testament is pointing back towards him. It's all about Jesus and his condensation. And to be a condensation, is that right? What?
Madi Schultz:is it Condensation? Is it incarnation Condescended?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Okay, his incarnation yes, I'm like condensation, that's like water. That's awesome, yes, so it's all about Jesus, all about pointing to him, and so, really, when you take a moment to just behold him and the life that he lived, it's beautiful and the Gospels are pretty easy. It's a story. Yeah, they're pretty easy to read, not necessarily always to understand, but to read.
Madi Schultz:I love those. I love how you said slow growth is good growth, like that's super helpful, is good growth, like that's super helpful? I feel like that's encouraging my soul that, yeah, to sit in the same thing. We can often, yeah, want to learn as much as possible, quote unquote, in the littlest amount of time, and it's like no God's word is not going to return, void if you're in Psalm 63 for the rest of your life or like one verse. So I know I needed to be encouraged by that. So thanks for those tips. Okay, another thing God has made you passionate about is lament as the path to joy. Talk to us all about that, and can you start by defining lament? Yes, yes.
Cheyenne Boluyt:So lament is really just expressing our grief, our pain, our sorrow, our hurt, our confusion to God. It's those things that would be considered like hard emotions not bad emotions, but hard emotions to God and a third of the Psalms are lament. Every third Psalm that you're going to encounter is lament, and so I think that's a great place, a great place to start. And Mark Virgop I don't know if I'm saying his last name right, but he has a book called Dark Clouds, deep Mercy. It's so good, it's so good and it's so helpful. But he talks about kind of through the Psalms. He uses the Psalms to help define lament.
Cheyenne Boluyt:And as we look to the Psalms, we see this pattern of first turning to God in prayer. So you make the choice to turn to God in prayer, and then the second kind of section of most Psalms is bringing your complaint to God and so bringing your whatever that confusion or sorrow or grief is to him. And then, third is asking boldly like Lord, save my marriage, lord, save my child, lord, whatever. Ask him boldly. And then finally choosing to trust God or to praise him. And so you know the, the, the, but if not, I know you're good Moment where, where we turn our hearts to what's true and what we know about God to be true, and so know about God to be true, and so, yeah, it's.
Madi Schultz:I think those four points are just really helpful in refining what has it looked like in your own life to lament as the path to joy?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah Well, when I was going through really my darkest days, it was truly just my inhale and my exhale was this lament, like this isn't the way it's supposed to be. And I remember telling dad that I felt like he had left me, or asking him to move in certain ways, and in the end, a lot of what I asked for in my asking boldly, it didn't happen. And I think it's important because a lot of times I know or at least it can be a struggle for me as someone who kind of grew up in the church even though I never really sat under prosperity teaching was that like if I said the right things or if I believed the right ways or prayed the right prayer, that God would move or that something bad wouldn't happen, or that maybe I'd disappoint God if I really felt like he had left me. But clearly that's not how we see the psalmist praying and expressing himself to the Lord, and I think he really brought me to a moment where I felt like I didn't have a choice but to just express this pain. But really through that, through me bringing my confusion and my hurt and my sorrow to the Lord, something much more beautiful than just getting my prayers answered was beginning to happen, and it was really God shaking out all the rubble of my heart, like all the places I had placed my hope in instead of him. And I don't want anybody to hear me say that like God was punishing me for idolatry and removing things from my life, like that's not how God works.
Cheyenne Boluyt:But in this, these moments of despair, he was really shifting and sifting my heart and I was learning that it was really only in him that I had anything unshakable, that I had any true joy. And it was through, through the lament, through the days and the nights, that I was just at a loss, that I felt like everything in my world was collapsing, in those moments when he met me, that I just got him and learning one of the phrases that the Lord really gave me through it all was just, he is it like full stack, like he is the prize, he is the joy, he is the reward, he is what we're living for. And so when we come to him with our pain, um, he's not necessarily going to give us the thing that we're asking him for, but he is going to give us himself and he's going to show us how good, how kind, how gentle, how sufficient he is and in that that leads to a joy that nothing can ever take Like you have this oneness with with the Lord. That is just completely on unshakable.
Cheyenne Boluyt:And that's not to say there's not moments where it's still strong. You bring the lament back to him and you keep going, and that's how our faith is built is through these experiences, these very real experiences of God meeting us in our pain, and he's not repulsed by it, he's not shocked by it, he's not disgusted by it. He's not saying how could you think that about me, disgusted by it. He's not saying how could you think that about me?
Cheyenne Boluyt:But like in Gentle and Lowly, dane Ortlund talks about how it's those spaces in our hearts that God is actually drawn to the most and just how tender and kind he is. And so for me, that's what that path from lament to really just like beating the chest of God to joy has looked like, and I've experienced it throughout many different things really since then. That was kind of the moment for me where it felt like, like I said, I didn't feel like I had an option. I was kind of raw, yeah and yeah, and he showed me that he can handle it and he not only can handle it, but he wants to enter in and to heal and to bring his presence, which is peace, and so yeah, that's so encouraging.
Madi Schultz:What do you feel like? Because you touched on this? Thanks for just encouraging us that, yeah, we don't need to be scared to bring our honest thoughts and emotions to him Because, like you said, that's not what we see in the scriptures. They're pretty explicit with God in the Psalms. And so when we don't bring our true emotions and we kind of come with him with this little bow over, like okay, I'm sad, but I know you're good God, and that's like, what risk do we run if we're not actually bringing our true emotions to him and lamenting in prayer?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, I mean it's that one of my counselors talked about how you can't heal what you don't feel.
Cheyenne Boluyt:And it's not actually me healing, it's the spirit healing, it's Christ healing, and he can, of course, heal us.
Cheyenne Boluyt:But, like when we open ourselves up to the process and invite him in, like Scripture says that the truth sets you free, like you're not going to be free by deceiving yourself or by trying to hold it together, you're going to be left in bondage.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, and so to me that's the biggest risk is you're just left in this bondage and you're not inviting the spirit to come in. And of course, the spirit can break through anything that gosh if we just opened up our hearts and let him come in and let him do what he says that he will do. He says that he will be near to the brokenhearted and he will bind up their wounds, and so we run the risk of and I think, also just not experience that intimacy with God that he invites us to. It kind of reminds me of back in the garden right when Adam and Eve, where they were naked and ashamed and God covers them so that he can come near. And that's what God does to our sinful parts he covers them in his grace and he draws near to us that curtain is torn.
Cheyenne Boluyt:We can enter into the holy of holies, as we are by the blood of christ yeah and so, uh, we don't, we don't need that, we have that covering, yeah, in the blood and so we don't need to strive for it.
Cheyenne Boluyt:We don't need to pretend like we're okay, we're not um yeah I really love and I'm drawing a blank on even where it is specific. But there's a one little phrase in the psalm that just says I think it's psalm 30, I don't remember but it just says he knows your frame. He remembers that you are dust, like yeah, and I think that's just beautiful. Like he remembers your dust, he's like you are beloved, you are precious to him, made in his image, but he also remembers that your dust like he's not surprised. He's not surprised that your heart is fickle, that you're having a hard time believing that he is who he says he is, that you're, you don't see it all. Like our vision is cloudy and he knows it, yeah. So I think we just we run the risk of not experiencing that intimacy with Christ and being left in bondage to untruth.
Madi Schultz:Yeah, thanks for thanks for reminding us that Jesus is the prize, like you said, period. It reminds me of that phrase that people say Jesus plus nothing equals everything. It's Jesus plus nothing. And it reminds me of I think it's Psalm 84, maybe that he withholds no good thing from us and the no good thing is himself he's given us himself. So it's not like when we're reading that Psalm, in himself, like you said, he is our peace, our joy, our comfort, our security, and we have him. We have him. It's not like he's not withholding any good earthly thing that might come to me later. No, we have it, we have him. So thanks for encouraging us in that. Okay, god has made you passionate about cultural analysis. What are we worshiping with our actions, how we have our loves disordered, oftentimes Carl Truman, james KA Smith, type things you said. So talk to us all about that. What is it and how has it been helpful to think about and think through in your life and walk with the Lord?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, I mean, I think it was probably early college that I was introduced to James KA Smith and just this idea which he really bases a lot of his writing off of Augustinian thinking, which I didn't really know what my 18 year old self but just this idea that we were all made as worshipers, to worship something like which, yes, if you, if you know the word, you know that. But I think for the first time it kind of hit me fresh, like, oh, yes, if you, if you know the word, you know that. But I think for the first time it kind of hit me fresh, like, oh, like, not just Christians are worshipers, like we are all worshipers and everything that we do, as Christians or not Christians, is revealing what we love. So we're all worshipers and we're all worshiping something with what we do. And so I think for me it kind of started with looking outward and looking at the world around us and thinking about what are we worshiping when we go shopping? Not that shopping's wrong, but what are we worshiping? Where's my heart at when I'm taking medication for a headache? Have I slept enough? Have I drank enough water? Or am I worshiping like being busy and keeping up, and keeping up with the Joneses.
Cheyenne Boluyt:And so as I begin to like look at things like that, a lot began to shift for me, both in looking internally and say, what am I what? What am I worshiping with what I'm doing? Because I can say all day, yes, jesus, I believe in Jesus, I believe in his sufficiency, or I believe in the power of his saving grace, or I trust that he will provide. But if I'm having to drink 10 cups of coffee a day so I can work into, like, the late hours because, like I believe I am the source of my income and my provision, well then, do I actually believe that God is my provision or do I think I am? Um? And so I think I began to see how, really what you think about God shapes everything. And as I began to do that, I just ignited just kind of a passion to help other people see and lead to wonder.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Um is often the the phrase. It's just like I wonder, like I'm asking of myself, asking I wonder what, what we're believing when we do this huh like, are we believing the truth of the gospel or are we not? And that's been a really, I think, key practice for me in even coming to all of these realizations about we are made as worshipers and we're all always worshiping. Something Like am I throwing my kids a snack because I don't want to deal with them right now and I just want them to be quiet, or am I going to disciple their hearts in this moment? That clearly needs some discipling. What am I loving?
Madi Schultz:Yeah, that's super helpful. It reminds me of I think it might be a JI Packer quote. You've probably heard this quote. That's like what you think about God is the most important thing about you, or it's something along those lines. What I love that. I wonder, that line that you think through. I wonder what we're believing when we do this. Could you if maybe one or two come to mind could you give us an example? Just for anyone listening? That's like I really don't understand what you even mean by that. Can you share maybe an example of something that maybe you're like oh, I wonder what we're believing when I do X and then kind of point to like a way you're maybe not believing the gospel, or could you share an example?
Cheyenne Boluyt:For sure. So as a parent, the bedtime struggle can be really real. Sometimes I will have like put you to bed a handful of times and I'm like, what are we doing here a handful of times? What are we doing here? And I can find myself getting angry and frustrated.
Cheyenne Boluyt:And those feelings are maybe okay, but I can find I can like feel it just boiling inside of me sometimes and want to just be like I told you to go to bed and just kind of react in a not kind and a not loving way to my children and while they may need some direction, they don't need my explosive anger. And so when I feel that, I will often, by the grace of God, try to just ask myself I wonder what I'm loving right now. Or like I wonder why I feel so angry. Like because even even naming it helps our brains to process it and to not react in that way. Like I wonder why I'm feeling so angry. And feeling so angry Most of the time it's not purely because, like, someone is sinning. Yeah, it's usually because I want to sit and do what I want to do with you in bed. Yeah, like that is usually the root of my frustration in those moments. It is not a.
Cheyenne Boluyt:I just wish your heart would follow Jesus and be obedient yeah and so, um, just giving myself a minute to wonder about myself, what, I wonder what I'm, what am I loving right now? What? Why do I? I wonder why I feel so angry. I feel so angry because I really wanted this time to myself. Does my strength really come from this time alone when all my kids are in bed, or does it come from the Lord? And like, okay, it comes from the Lord, like scripture says, be strengthened in his best strength, not in your two hours alone after your kids are in bed. Wow, okay, so you begin to. I'm able to then kind of process that, my emotional experience through this lens of wonder. That has been really helpful to me.
Madi Schultz:That's so, so helpful. Do you have any other tangible things that you've found to be helpful, that kind of to do a self-check, or heart inventory, if you will, for what you're worshiping with your life?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, I think one that has been really key for me, at least in the last probably year, is Sabbath rest, so picking time for our families and Simon vocational ministry Saturdays is usually our Sabbath and it's time to just kind of quiet, external noise, um and and to be with the Lord and walk with him, to allow him the spirit to reveal things that have maybe been wonky in our hearts, um, or disordered, um, ways of thinking or loving, that really God is so faithful and he will show us like he will show us these things when we come to him and when we ask him what's going on in our hearts, and a lot of times we can't get that.
Cheyenne Boluyt:He's kind and he'll show us in the busyness of our lives, but there is something really special about just pausing and inviting him to speak to these right Like search my heart, oh God, see if there's any wicked way in me in letting the spirit do that.
Cheyenne Boluyt:And then another litmus test that I think is just really helpful is and I kind of alluded to it in my example but what makes me anxious and what's making me angry? Yeah, like, what are those things that are really are really causing internal strife in me and they boil over to external strife as well. It's just what's making me angry or anxious, because a lot of times, those are things that we are placing our hope in is my hope is though none of us would usually say it like my hope is in those two hours alone after bedtime, or my hope is in that target run, or my hope is in that cup of coffee. Or you know, yeah, or you know, and if I don't get that, you know, if I don't get my two hours alone, if I don't get my target run, or if I don't get my cup of coffee.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Like we'll stay out of my way. Yeah, okay, well, there's probably something going on in me.
Madi Schultz:Those are super. Those are super helpful. What about also with, like, a self-check for your disordered loves? Does that look similar to that? Or, if yes, do you feel like you do these self-checks alone, or have you found it helpful to do this in the context of community, for what you're loving?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yes, absolutely, praise the Lord. I have a solid group of sisters in Christ, and I mean James 5.16 calls us to confess our sins to one another, and other people have a different perspective than we have, and I think in community, even turning to wonder with someone is so helpful, like I wonder what's going on in my heart. Or hey, I saw you kind of just like I don't usually see you interact with your kids that way I wonder what's going on. Can we talk about that? I'd love to walk with you in this and just wondering with people and exposing myself to inviting other people in, because I have blind spots. I'm not going to see every sin or every misstep that I make, but gracious, godly women will be, help, hold me accountable to the Lord because they love me and they want me to be made into Christ's image, and so I mean into Christ's image and so I mean for me, praise the Lord.
Cheyenne Boluyt:One of the ways is through our life group together. We have just built in time for the women to pray together and this is a sweet time for, as women, us to come together and just kind of share like what are these, what are these struggles, what are these areas? And we have a group text that will follow up with each other. Hey, how you doing in this, how's it going? And it's been a really beautiful confessional group, supporting group, loving group, yeah, where that has been able to take place. So I think scripture is pretty clear about confessing to one another, being in community and truly the truth sets you free. And so when you can confess, you know hey, I've been really struggling with anger towards my children and I need prayer and accountability, like the Spirit is going to honor that. He's going to walk with you and he's going to use his people Hopefully, if you're in a solid Bible, believing Jesus, loving community to support you in that.
Madi Schultz:Yeah, I love that. And I'm sure you find this too, like when we're confessing, because I think the scripture that you referenced like it goes on to say like then you will be healed, like he'll like heal you in that. And even just this last week, like getting to chat with some gals of like gosh, how again the scripture you then just referenced, again the truth, like it will set you free. And it's like the freedom God brings when we're like just confessing, hey, I'm, I struggle with this, I'm not that great, and like, oh, my gosh, you struggle with this too. Okay, like, okay, we're all the same under a holy God.
Madi Schultz:And then the deep, the depth of community and trust that gets to get built, not on this like false facade of I never get angry at my children, because that's just not like not reality, but like no, here's where I'm falling short and I'm sinning because I'm human. But, gosh, yeah, would you partner with me and praying and keeping me accountable, and just the freedom that comes from bringing it to light, from just like the minute you say it you're like, oh, what a weight that I don't have to pretend that I'm not struggling ever, but that God's blood has already covered that Then I get a walk in freedom and ask him his, his power for help the next 20 times that I maybe fall short in that. Yes, that's also encouraging. What books have you enjoyed, then? Regarding this topic, you kind of you alluded to James K Smith, but what are the specific books that you read?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yes, yeah, I really enjoyed Desiring the Kingdom and that's a little bit older, but that was his first one that I kind of read on the topic. That kind of began to stir this in me, began to stir this in me. And then his book you Are what you Love is beautiful and very much goes off of to a lot of Augustine's confessions, which I have really appreciated. It's not necessarily explicitly like a here, but he does talk a lot about his own struggle with disordered loves and what that looks like in his own life, and so I really I really appreciated that book a lot.
Madi Schultz:Okay, so you are passionate about church history. Tell us how this passion grew and why is church history so important?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, I think for me, the first time I really remember like retaining something about church history was in a Christian doctoring class in college actually, and we had the best professor ever. He brought his ukulele to class. Sometimes he was just, he was amazing, um, and so he was an older saint, he had walked with the Lord for a long time, and so for me it kind of listening to him talk about it began to kind of stir this interest in me. But really I think it ignited as I began in kind of young adulthood to watch people that I really loved a lot and some that I didn't.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Really you are way smarter than I ever hoped to be walk away from the faith. And as I began to see this, I began to feel my own doubts rising about like is this all like really true? I thought that person was really smart and they've like, yeah, away from it all. And during this time I really felt the spirit be like you stand on the shoulders of 1000s of years of people being willing to literally die for this, like smart people, like intelligent people, and not that that's like all of it. But for me that was something that was like oh, my word. Like yes, we stand on the shoulders of like thousands of years, and so that began this just journey for me of falling in love with church history.
Madi Schultz:Wow, I love that. What? What do you feel like is the risk that we run if we don't know the history of the church?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, I think we can become really fatalistic, honestly. What's that mean? Just like this is hopeless and the end of all things for the church and for the people of God. Very like scared or doomsday feeling. Kind of a feeling, right, like we can all acknowledge that, like times can feel really dark for christians right now. Like we're kind of feeling that shift into a um, a culture, post-christian culture. Yeah, yeah, we're like once the at least the morals of the faith were accepted and now the morals of the faith are almost considered like horrible and bullying and mean or whatever. So we can feel like times are really dark.
Cheyenne Boluyt:And if we don't know church history, we don't know that this isn't the first time times have felt really dark, don't know that this isn't the first time times have felt really dark. This isn't the first time it felt like this might be the end of the church as we know it and we might also not see that sometimes it's not horrible if it's the end of, like our social construct of the church as we know it, but like the church of Christ will always prevail. He has always saved a remnant. And so if we don't know church history, I think it can really impact our own experience and we have kind of this tunnel vision of like this is as bad as it's ever been. It's never been this bad before and that's just not entirely the truth. It's never been this moment before.
Madi Schultz:But it's been bad before but event or era of church history that you've studied and maybe continue to love to study. If yes, why has it become your favorite or how has it impacted you?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, I think I would have to say early church history is probably my favorite and that's kind of the first 600 years of the church, so from like Acts, and so I just love seeing all of the groundwork that the early church did, like the councils, and joining together to say what is truth, and to see the heresies that they fought against. Because really, as you as, as I have studied those, I've learned, like the truth of Ecclesiastes, that there's nothing new under the sun. Most of the heresies that we encounter today in 2024 were the same that the church fathers were combating in 400 and in 180. Like, yeah, they're very similar, and so I just I have loved spending time studying those. I really fell in love with like Tertullian's defense of the faith.
Cheyenne Boluyt:I think it's just, it's a really beautiful and powerful book statement that tertullian, this church father, wrote um at a time where christians were just being slaughtered, and he's writing to the um, to the officials, and essentially saying like this is our defense. Our defense is like we're the best neighbors, like you're killing us, but everybody wants to be like neighbors with the christians. What's this, what's that called? Or what it's Tertullian's apologetics? Yeah, and so he has this really beautiful line that is essentially then saying like so keep, if you want, keep killing us. Like the blood of the Christians is the seed for the gospel, like, the more that you are killing us, the more that the gospel is going forward. And so, um, like you're, you're working against yourself by killing us, because the more of us that are are dying for the faith, um, the more, uh, the more the gospel is going forward.
Madi Schultz:And so that reminds me of I'm in Exodus right now for my Bible plan and our church is walking through Exodus and it reminds me the the more the Israelites were oppressed, the more they grew in number, the more God grew them. And then he just says he's been doing that of all the all of history. Yeah, sorry.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Keep going, just says he's been doing that of all the always, all of history. Yeah, sorry, keep going. Yeah, yeah. So, and that's what I love about like church history is, I think then you begin to see too, like the redemptive story and how, yes, you can see what happened in exodus, is what happened in the gospels, is what happened in acts, is what happened in 480, is what happened in 16, is what happened in 480, is what happened in 1680, is what's happening today.
Cheyenne Boluyt:And like you see the redemptive history, another one I really appreciate is like Athanasius and Arian. Arian had a heresy that he espoused that Christ was of like substance to God but he wasn't actually God, that Christ was of like substance to God but he wasn't actually God. And Athanasius and other church fathers were like no, he's of God, he is God, but it was really the difference of one letter that was like of like substance or same substance. And so to me that just again highlights what people have kind of always been doing is taking the word and tweaking it a little. It's what, it's what they did in the garden, it's what you know continues to happen, and so just I really appreciate the ground of the early church and I feel like studying that I learned a lot about even just defending the faith in our time and in our place, because it's really similar, yeah. And then I mean we love celebrating like Reformation Day in our house.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Can you share what.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Reformation Day is if someone's listening and they don't know Can you share what Reformation Day is if someone's listening and they don't know. Yeah, so Reformation Day was a moment in church history when the church had really fallen to indulgences, which is paying for forgiveness for your sin. You had to actually pay money to the church leaders to be forgiven for your sins. The scriptures were only in Latin. They were available to the common person because at that point only really the Pope would have known Latin and so he could only interpret the scriptures. No one else could. And it was a very dark time in church history.
Cheyenne Boluyt:And a theologian who used to be a monk, martin Luther, kind of began the ball rolling with the Reformation when he nailed 95 beliefs about God and who he is to the door of the Wittenberg church, and in that time the state and the church were very intermingled. And so, um, it was just a really pivotal point for church history where Martin Luther really taught um grace alone, we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, by Christ alone, um, alone by Christ alone, through to the like, to the glory of God alone, yeah, and so he, he began set into motion the church, really coming back to the truth of Scripture. So it's October 31. And so we always. We celebrate, we make.
Cheyenne Boluyt:We make dirt and worms like the old school dessert. I love that Because Martin Luther gave his defense at what's called the diet of worms no way, that's so cool. And so we always make dirt and worms. And I had a really proud mom moment when we were making it this year and my eight-year-old was like mom, can I make the worms in the shape of Martin Luther's seal Stop? I was like, yeah, you can, that's awesome I was.
Madi Schultz:I was due with. I just had a baby November 2nd and I was like, if I have this baby on Halloween, and then I was like, nope, I will have this baby on Reformation.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Day. I will be fine, I will praise the Lord.
Madi Schultz:So even just to keep going off of yours, that's where, if you're listening, that's where the Protestant church broke off from the Catholic church and Catholicism, and so I even was thinking about lately or that, like technically, you and I are technically Protestants, like technically, we maybe like don't go to like a Protestant church, but like that's when, like maybe we got more or like you know, from branching, branching, branching off of that.
Madi Schultz:You know Protestant, presbyterian, even non-denominational, um, different than Catholicism, that's all.
Madi Schultz:Oh, it's so, if you're listening to this and you hadn't heard of Reformation Day, that's such a pivotal point in our, in our, in our church's history's such a pivotal point in our church's history, such a pivotal point of whoa, and I think it's so, if I think about it for too long, cheyenne, and maybe you feel the same it's like whoa, how'd they all get there?
Madi Schultz:I totally get it because I could get there, but it's just crazy that it's cool to even think about the bravery, by God's grace, of Martin Luther, to like go up against what would have been like everything to everyone, like wow, I think about his bravery, but I also am like that's crazy that it got there, but like gosh, that's so important for me to be reminded scripture, scripture, scripture and trust that the spirit will bring understanding, trust that I'm fallible and I'm going to need help in the context of community people that are walking and studying the scriptures. But that whole it's just wild to think about when you think about it all, are there any more thoughts on that than are there any books that you have found helpful regarding church history that someone wants to dive in and learn about it for the first time?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, yeah, for sure, I'm a big book person. I love it. I love it so much.
Madi Schultz:Are you on Goodreads, Can we? Are you on Goodreads? Can we just follow you? Okay, we'll link to her Goodreads so we can just read what she's reading. Yes, you can follow me on.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Goodreads Amazing. Yes, so I really love Bruce Shelley's Church History in Plain Language for somebody who wants to learn about.
Cheyenne Boluyt:I have read. It's thick, but I'm telling you, I have read some smaller books that I just couldn't even get to get through because they were so boring. Like, church History is not boring, it's this like beautiful story, and I think that Bruce Shelley does a really beautiful job at storytelling. And so, while it's thick, it's not like, honestly, there's center books that are way more difficult to get through than that, and so I really appreciate that. And then I really love um, it's an online resource but it's Christian History Institute Cool, and so they just literally have like eras of church history that you can just read about. They have a magazine that you can subscribe to for free and it's really really good. I have really appreciated that.
Cheyenne Boluyt:And then if you have kids, or also if you don't have kids but you're like I need something, I just want to want something a little more kid friendly yeah, um, we have and we love there's a church histories ABCs book Cool. That is great and even for me, like reading it as an adult to my kids, it helped ignite in me a like oh, I'm really interested in this person or this era. And then I really also love Simonetta Carr's church history books. She has just kind of different, like kid versions of biographies and stuff of people throughout church history that you can read.
Madi Schultz:Would she have written the Corrie Ten Boom kids book that I have, or no, maybe?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Maybe, yeah, maybe Do they all are they really.
Madi Schultz:is the illustration just like really cute and beautiful, or am I? Maybe I'm thinking it's really beautiful, it's really beautiful.
Cheyenne Boluyt:They're mostly like. I think most of them are burgundy. They're kind of like rectangle. Okay, like bird.
Madi Schultz:I think most of them are burgundy.
Cheyenne Boluyt:They're kind of like rectangle okay, I mean, I think I might be thinking of a different one. I think we have. I think there's a Martin Luther one, there's a lady Jane Gray one, cool like she just, yeah, okay, I love that.
Madi Schultz:So kind of going off of that, we just kind of touched on it. But you are wildly passionate about books and I love that. I am too. Um, I'm not I don't think I'm, as I'm as widely read as you, but I'm passionate about reading and like, oh, we get to learn from the saints before us. But, okay, what, what books are you passionate about? Why are you passionate about books, specific genres or all? Tell us all the things. Are you in a book club? I have lots of questions.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yes, yes, so I just really in recent years have come to love all genres I used to be, like strictly non-fiction, like I did not encourage me.
Madi Schultz:I need to. I need to break through it.
Cheyenne Boluyt:You could do it, girl, um, and I really started by doing every other like I would read like a fiction and then a nonfiction, and a fiction and a nonfiction.
Cheyenne Boluyt:But what I love about fiction is you can learn from other people, even if they're fictional, in like times and places, cool. And so I really I have a anyone who knows me and is listening. It would be like, oh my gosh, I knew she was going to say this, but I love Wendell Berry and Wendell Berry novels. He just has a really profound ability to tie deep truths into a narrative story and it's not, they're not even necessarily like christian novels. He's like an um in uh, economic like into economics and agriculture and the land and all of the things that even like as christians we we should think about, care about. So yeah, I love Wendell Berry, I love his, his novels.
Cheyenne Boluyt:As far as nonfiction, I think one of the biggest books that I'm like I think everyone should read it is holiness by JC Ryle. Like it is just beautiful. He, he spends the whole book literally just like talking about the holiness of God. And how do we as followers think about the holiness of God? And I just think in our culture that's kind of a neglected thing and so it was really beautiful. I really love A Long Obedience in the Same Direction by Eugene Peterson as well. I felt like I was like sipping on coffee with my grandfather, like just like gleaning from his wisdom of, just like years of faithfully walking with Jesus. Wow, and then I am currently reading Little Women for the first time ever.
Madi Schultz:Are you loving?
Cheyenne Boluyt:it. I am. I mean I've read like the, like kid versions, you know, and like watched the movies and stuff, but I love it and just reading it for the first time I love that.
Madi Schultz:Okay, amazing, I will link all of those books in the show notes. I can't wait to maybe read my first fiction novel, at least in a long time. I've read like a total of three in the last very long time, so I'm excited to hopefully become a Wendell Berry, wendell Berry, wendell Berry fan. Okay, yay, and everyone follow Cheyenne on Goodreads, and so she can just tell us what to read. Okay, what is one habit that you have cultivated that has changed your life?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Waking up early. Yeah, I am introverted, and so having a quiet minute to myself is been life-changing.
Madi Schultz:I love that. I love that. Okay, what is a lie that you've believed that God has had to, or maybe still is, uprooting in your heart, and what gospel truth has he been reminding you to squash that lie?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, I think I kind of alluded to it earlier, but I think still in moments I see this lie kind of popping back up that if I had to pray, I have to pray or think in a certain way, or his goodness will be withheld from me. And I mean we said earlier, the truth is that no good thing does he withhold from those who love him like full stop, because he is the good thing and he has not withheld himself from us. And so, yeah, that's a lie that I think probably took root when I was young and still kind of circles back and this truth has been so helpful in me in combating it.
Madi Schultz:I love that. Who has had the biggest influence on your walk with Jesus and why?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, I feel like a thousand people probably have Cool, but I do feel I feel really blessed. I feel like I could say like somebody big and famous, but really for me it's been like multiple people Like I think of my brother Branson, who showed me like how to engage and how to think critically about the culture around us while maintaining a pastoral heart. Kelly, who was my mentor, who showed me relentless love and who showed me the power of the word. My friend Eden, who just really experienced the ministry of Christ's presence through her. And my friend Sarah, the empathy of Christ.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Abigail has this like deep faith for the Lord. Brooke, my sister-in-law she's sure-footed and she trusts Jesus through like anything. I think of my friend Jen, who is just steadfast, or my friends Aubrey and Tracy, who have trusted God through really, really painful seasons. And it's really all of these people who are just like the closest to me who have had the most profound impact because they've literally I've seen it. I've seen it in their lives. I know that it's real for them, I know that they love Jesus and they're gonna hold me accountable and they're gonna love me in the name of Jesus. They're gonna show me his grace, all of those things, and they've been the hands and feet of Jesus to me, and so they've truly had the deepest impact on me and on my walk with Jesus.
Madi Schultz:That's so encouraging and it's just that good reminder of like, if you're listening, that like we are meant to do life with people in the flesh. There we are, totally. It's such a gift from the Lord. All the technology these days and we get to listen to this person and read this person and and there's such a place for that and also the primary way that the church is flesh on flesh.
Madi Schultz:When you are walking through the darkest moments of your life, the famous preacher that you listen to they're not going to show up at your doorstep to read the scripture to you and to love you, because that's what the body does. So I love just that reminder that anyone that's listening today, that you know you're walking with the Lord, praise God, but you're maybe relying on an online presence or online people. Again, totally a place and that is a gift. Just that encouragement to get to be involved in the flesh with the local body of believers because that, like, god is going to use them to encourage, exhort, convict, like, show you your sin, walk with you, point out your sin, the person that's not doing my everyday life with me in the wild. They probably think I'm really great because they've never witnessed my in the moment sin X, y, Z, so there's so much beauty and so I love that answer and I'm super encouraged by that. What is the best advice you've ever received? I know best is a tough word, but I got to say it.
Cheyenne Boluyt:I know, right, I think I don't know if it's like advice as much as just like wisdom, but I just remember, like sitting with one of my dear friends and pastor's wife and I was just like crying about a season that one of my kiddos was in, and she was just like I know it's hard, I know it's so painful, but like it won't last forever. And like for me, like it's so common knowledge, right, and we hear it all the time, like it won't last forever. But she didn't say it in a like dismissive way, like so it doesn't matter, but in a like this is hard and also you will get through it. And so, because I tend to be, I like catastrophize they're, they're being disobedient right now, so they're going to be the most rebellious 16 year olds. And she's like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's, let's come back to reality in this moment so yeah, I love that.
Madi Schultz:I love that. What is a a piece of scripture the Lord is currently using to exhort, encourage or convict you with lately?
Cheyenne Boluyt:first line. That's just like be strengthened in the Lord and in his vast strength. Um has been really encouraging to me. Um, and convicting both encouraging and convicting. I feel like usually those two go hand in hand. Um, but just a really beautiful reminder that my parenting, the ministry that God has called me to like, when I feel weak, I can be strengthened in his vast strength and it is his strength that gives anything that I would say or do to my children or to the women that I'm called to minister to any sort of like power. It's not me, and so I get to stand under that and stand in his strength and his vast strength and convicting in those moments where I try to do something on my own. So, yeah, I would say for me that's a scripture that the Lord has really been using to speak to my heart lately.
Madi Schultz:I love that Someone is out there listening to this, god willing, and maybe for the first time, thinking I want to respond to the gospel, I want to know and follow Jesus. What is a tangible next step for them? What advice do you have for them?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, romans 10 says that if you believe in your heart and you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, that you will be saved. And so I would say, if you feel the spirit opening your heart to the gospel, the truth that Jesus is Lord, to respond by confessing it. To respond by confessing, by saying, by declaring that that's what you believe to be true, in submitting your heart to his Lordship. And then my next faithful step which, maddie, you even kind of alluded to the importance of this just a minute ago is to get connected to someone who knows Jesus, who loves Jesus, who can celebrate with you, who knows Jesus, who loves Jesus, who can celebrate with you and who can walk with you in your journey with him. I love that Okay.
Madi Schultz:To wrap up our time together, we have some rapid fire questions. Keyword, rapid, keyword, fire. Are you ready, ready? Okay, most impactful verse on your life all time Exodus 33, 18. Please let me see your glory. Favorite book all time? I have to say the Narnia series. I love that Favorite song right now.
Cheyenne Boluyt:We have been jamming to father Let your kingdom come by the Porter's gate.
Madi Schultz:Favorite song all time.
Cheyenne Boluyt:I would have to say it's so hard because I love him, but I would have to also say no one ever cared for me like Jesus is like our family theme song.
Madi Schultz:Oh, I love that Favorite food.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Oh, very millennial of me, but I'm going to have to say like white sharp cheddar and brie, and or brie with some good like thin jam, I love it. I'm just a millennial.
Madi Schultz:I love it. Favorite Bible teacher to listen to Jen Wilkins Favorite podcast Either Knowing Faith or the Bible Recap Okay. Something not many people know about you Now that I'm an adult. Not many people know that I'm a twin. Oh, my goodness, where does your twin live?
Madi Schultz:He lives just about an hour away. Is that the brother that you just spoke about in one of your questions, or is it? Nope, that was my oldest brother, but he's also one of them. Okay, amazing, wait, sorry, you said he lives an hour away. Your twin, yeah, okay, do you guys? Silly question Do you look a lot alike? Not?
Cheyenne Boluyt:really. But also he's got like a big red beard. Like my kids literally called him uncle big beard. That probably doesn't help, right?
Madi Schultz:Right, okay, I love that. What are you loving right now? Could be literally anything.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Okay, so I'm an old lady at heart. I'm going to say my wooden crochet hook.
Madi Schultz:I love that. What have you crocheted?
Cheyenne Boluyt:I have crocheted a sweater for my girl recently, and now I'm working on a baby blanket.
Madi Schultz:I love that. Okay, how can our friends listening today be praying for you?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yes, I am always, always asking for prayer, for wisdom and grace in parenting and in just any of the places that God has called me to serve, for wisdom and grace in parenting and in just any of the places that God has called me to serve Just wisdom and grace.
Madi Schultz:I love that. Okay, where can our listeners find you, if you want to be found?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yes, so I am probably most active on Instagram when I'm on there, and so it's just at CheyenneBillette and it's a private account, but you are welcome to request and follow Amazing.
Madi Schultz:Going back to you said you've gotten to write some Bible studies. Have those only been for your church? Is there anywhere that we can find those or no?
Cheyenne Boluyt:Yeah, they're only printed for our church. If somebody asked, I'd give it to them. Okay Well.
Madi Schultz:I want it. Okay, great, amazing. Okay, cheyenne, this has been such a treat, so sweet to get to learn from you, and just so many different topics. I love just learning about church history, lamenting as the path to joy. So many things I'm definitely going to chew on and that God's already got something stirring in my heart. So, cheyenne, thanks for taking the time to be here.
Cheyenne Boluyt:Thanks so much for having me.
Madi Schultz:Maddie. It was such a joy. Gosh Cheyenne was such a delight to chat with and just learned so much from her. The Lord has given her so much wisdom and I can't get over the all the way back to the end of the episode, the ketchup and coffee and scripture, how her friends showed up for her in her darkest hour and fed her spiritually and physically. But, yeah, just was blown away and learned so much from Cheyenne's vulnerability.
Madi Schultz:If you've listened to the podcast already, you know that James K Smith, who she talked about when we were talking about what you worship, james K Smith, his book you Are what you Love is one of my all-time most impactful books on my life. So that is a must, must, must read. She got me excited to start reading more about church history. That line that the spirit spoke to her when she was wrestling with friends falling away from the faith. Where the spirit spoke to her she said in quotes you stand on the shoulders of thousands of years of people willing to die for this End quote. Oh, that encouraged me to the depths of my soul. God's church continues to stand the test of time and God tells us in his word that the gates of hell will never prevail over his church, aka his people. So, no matter how dark it feels, you can know God is sustaining his church. We can stand firm on God and his word and, yeah, that just that gives me a confidence and I pray that it gives you confidence too.
Madi Schultz:Friends, you have may seen on Instagram maybe, maybe not, but I am currently working on a photography class for one for the non-photographers and a mentorship thing for photographers. But the first one is I will be offering, probably in the next few months I'm not for sure on a specific start date, but a mundane. I'm calling it mundane moments 101. I'm going to be offering a virtual iPhone photography class, walking through lighting, editing, et cetera for iPhone photography, and I'm also going to be offering a DSLR class. So think of a camera that has a lens on it. Maybe you own one and you're like I really don't know how to use this. I put it on auto and I just hope for the best. Well, I want to teach you how to use it, how to use it well and different lighting tips, so that you can be taking photography grade photos in your home of your kids.
Madi Schultz:Maybe you read on Instagram that my only goal for 2023 was to take more photos with my camera. I used to be a photographer for seven years a wedding, family, senior photographer and my goal was to use my nice camera more of our mundane, ordinary, raw, sweet moments. And so that just looks like leaving it out on the kitchen counter and, every couple days, taking 20 seconds of photos, setting it up and setting a timer and taking photos of our family. Oh, my goodness, you guys, they have become some of my most cherished photos and I have such sweet memories now and nice photos from my camera of our day-to-day moments, and I wanna help you, I wanna teach you and give you the tools to take photography grade photos of your everyday moments first day of school, birthday parties, friend gatherings, whatever it is. I want to give you the tools to do that. And so, super excited about both of those things, I actually just this last weekend I was in Iowa visiting my family and I kind of did as a little guinea pig.
Madi Schultz:I taught the class essentially to my sister in law and helped her learn how to use her camera, how to edit it, how to edit those photos, and she already is sending me pictures of her kids that she's taken this week and edited and they look amazing, and that just gets me excited to teach you and to help you take photos of the people in your life, and so super excited about that. Be on the lookout for that. I also am selling my preset soon, which I'm so excited about too, to also get that into photographer's hands and, if you're not a photographer, into your hands as well, for you to edit your at-home photos. That was the preset that I used over the seven years of my photography business and I am so excited for it. To God willing, bless you and your family.
Madi Schultz:So, on top of that last thing that I'm working on, maybe you read in my newsletter that I'm also working on a website as a catch all for all these things, and I'm super, super excited also to just give you a space to find and have more resources, and so so excited for that. Be on the lookout for those things. If you are not subscribed to my newsletter, subscribe to my newsletter. You're going to get a lot of the information there. So there's a link in the show notes that you can subscribe to my newsletter and stay up to date on all these things. Friends, as always, I would love to hear from you. Please feel free to email me at madi at sunny and six fivecom friends, go be bold and love big, and we will see you next time.