Episode 74: Courtney Powell

This conversation stirred me up and freed me up!!! Gosh, I can't wait for you to hear Courtney encourage us in our work for the Lord. She is a wife, mama and serves as the Director of Ministry Content for an organization called Women & Work which exists to see women confidently step into their God-given calling and view their work as meaningful to the Kingdom of God. She is passionate about that, along with discipleship and theologically equipping women– y'all are going to love this conversation!!! Enjoy!

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FROM THE EPISODE:

#SA65Bookclub Book of the Month for August: Hudson Taylor: Deep in the Heart of China


@courtneyelainepowell

womenwork.net

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Women & Work: Bearing God's Image and Joining in His Mission through our Work by Courtney Moore

Liturgy of the Ordinary: Sacred Practices in Everyday Life by Tish Harrison Warren

Colossians 3:17 

Deep Discipleship: How the Church Can Make Whole Disciples of Jesus

Matthew 28

The Dwell App - 30% OFF

The Gospel Coalition Website

Crossway’s Knowing the Bible

Reformed Theological Seminary App.


Knowing Faith Podcast

The Bible Recap Podcast 

Gospel In Life

Timothy Keller Podca

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

Hey friends, welcome back to the Sunny in 65 podcast. I'm your host, maddie Schultz, and today I am joined by Courtney Powell. We talk all things women and work and calling. And is your work important? Yes, yes, it is, and I just know you're going to be encouraged by this conversation with Courtney. Enjoy, hi, courtney. Welcome to the podcast. Wait, I can't hear you all of a sudden.

Speaker 2 0:28

I'm so sorry I had my I self-muted. Hello, I'm here.

Speaker 1 0:34

That's amazing. Okay, hey, courtney, welcome to the podcast. Glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Okay, so Courtney and I got connected. This is our first time meeting virtually. We got connected through a mutual friend, colin Provart, who just hopped on the call a few seconds ago. And you come with high praise, courtney. I'm so excited to get to chat with you and learn from you today. So can you tell us the quick gist about yourself?

Speaker 2 1:01

Yeah, so I am married to Matt. We've been married for 10 years this year actually which is a big milestone.

Speaker 1 1:07

Congratulations.

Speaker 2 1:09

We have three kids Addie, who's seven, lottie is five and we have a one-year-old named Maggie. So that's really fun. All girls, three girls. I serve as the director of ministry content for a nonprofit called Women in Work. It's kind of the thing that I do for fun, but for my paid gig, if you will. I do operations for a nonprofit that does ministry work in the Middle East North Africa region, so that's really fun. I've learned a lot through doing that. Let's see what else. What else?

Speaker 2 1:42

We live in Arvada, colorado, which is really fun. We live pretty close to the mountains. We've lived here for about three and a half years. My husband serves as a worship pastor at our church, so that's been really fun. We met in Louisville, kentucky, so I actually have a bachelor of music degree from Union University and then went on from there to Southern Seminary where I have a master's in church ministry, and that's where Matt and I met when we were both in Louisville, kentucky, which we loved living in Louisville. From there we went to Birmingham, alabama, which was really a formative time for us. Matt served as an associate just to kind of help be trained up for future ministry. And then we came to Colorado. But I'm originally from Fort Worth, texas, and I am a Texan through and through, one of those Texans, that's like, really obsessed with being from Texas.

Speaker 1 2:31

If you're not one of those Texans, are you even Texan Like? You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 2:36

Okay, yeah, exactly, it's just part of it. It's just part of being from Texas. Yeah, do you miss Texas? Oh, yeah, I do miss Texas, but I will say I love the weather in Colorado. It's really fun. So I mean, honestly, colorado is full of Texans also, so it doesn't feel that wildly different. Yeah, so it's been good.

Speaker 1 2:55

Amazing. Okay, I have a few different questions One. Well, I'll save this question for last because it might be a longer answer. Do you and your husband then get to? Do you serve on worship together?

Speaker 2 3:04

at your church. Still, yeah, I do yeah, which is fun we get to serve together which can be a little chaotic, obviously, because we have all of our kids roaming about up here whenever we're both serving together, but it's really fun.

Speaker 1 3:19

So how sweet for them to get to grow up.

Speaker 2 3:21

Oh yeah, they're, they're in it, they're in it.

Speaker 1 3:24

Are they? Can you already tell that they are musically gifted like their parents? You?

Speaker 2 3:28

know, our oldest seems like she is Our middle daughter. We can't really tell for her yet, she's only five. And then obviously, our one-year-old. She likes anything. That's a lot of noise, so you know that's amazing. Okay, and then?

Speaker 1 3:43

my other question how did you get involved in the nonprofit that you work for?

Speaker 2 3:50

Yeah, well, you know I was looking for I worked remotely for about 10 years. Whenever I was in Louisville I was working for the seminary. I took that job with me and it got to the point where, I mean, they don't have a lot of remote workers and so it just got to the point where it wasn't a sustainable situation that I had been away for so long, and so I was just looking for something else and I was approached by a really great organization called Ministry Desk and it's an executive assistant organization that works primarily with nonprofits or churches about a position. I had worked with a girl that founded that and it was about a position for this organization. So that's how I initially got connected and was through Ministry Desk, and now I just work directly for that organization.

Speaker 1 4:36

And so it's been really fun I've been with them for about two years.

Speaker 2 4:41

I say it's been really fun. It has been really fun. It's been very hard. I mean it's been the hardest job I've had, definitely the most challenging. It's been a huge learning curve for me. It's been good though.

Speaker 1 4:50

Wow, okay. Do you ever travel for that job or travel to the places?

Speaker 2 4:56

Yeah, so it's a global organization and so everyone that I work with lives everywhere, because everyone it's always been remote since its inception, and so I've traveled just a little bit stateside. But this year, actually, we're doing a meeting with all of our partners that are donors, but also ministry partners are coming as well, and we'll meet. We try to meet in a neutral location, so we're going to be in Amsterdam, which I'm excited about, so that'll be my first time to go overseas with them. But yeah, so it'll be really fun.

Speaker 1 5:27

Okay, that's amazing. Okay, can you tell us about when you came to know and follow Jesus?

Speaker 2 5:32

Yeah, so I grew up in a Christian home, which is huge. It's a huge part of just my story. Yeah, so I grew up with believing parents and grandparents and and I became a believer when I was seven and I was actually with my grandparents. We had just gone to a thing at a church together and I had some questions when we got home, but the main thing I remember I was staying the night with them and the main thing I remember was just asking my grandfather about how, what I do now. What do I do now that I'm aware of my sin? And he just walked through the gospel with me, which was really helpful, and I continued going to church with my family, but I wasn't actually. I actually wasn't baptized until I was 10, because my parents wanted to really make sure that I had an understanding of what that was, and so really I don't. It's. It's one of those stories where I don't have a time where I remember life without Jesus necessarily.

Speaker 1 6:30

Praise.

Speaker 2 6:30

God and so, yeah, so that's when I became a believer and I feel like just ever since then I've been blessed to grow up in churches that have been really intentional about teaching God's word and discipleship, and in a home where and with grandparents on both sides that I felt like I could ask any kind of question to. So that's when I became a believer. I was seven and, but I have always just had the Lord in the forefront of our family.

Speaker 1 6:55

So Praise the Lord and what a legacy for your grandparents. On both sides are their parents and grandparents, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 7:03

So there is a long kind of legacy of faith on both sides are their parents and grandparents, yeah, yeah, so there is a long kind of legacy of faith on both sides, which is really cool, wow, so cool.

Speaker 1 7:12

Okay, if you're willing, would you tell us about a season of suffering and how you saw the Lord show up in it?

Speaker 2 7:18

Yeah, when I was thinking about this question. You know I'm 34 now, I'll be 35 this summer and you kind of build up different seasons that you can talk about.

Speaker 1 7:27

I mean in some ways.

Speaker 2 7:28

And so I just kind of thought of one that was really recent. That ended up being something really sweet. So in November of see now I'm going to get the dates all wrong, but I believe, pretty confident, it was 2022. We were actually in Georgia. That's where Matt's family is from. We were in a really remote area of Georgia visiting Matt's family for Thanksgiving. It was really cute. Actually, we were going on a Polar Express ride At the time. There were 11 grandkids on Matt's side and so all the kids were going. We were about two hours, I would say, from where he lives and I just started having some really severe pain and a very long story short. We ended up kind of it was a bit of a traumatizing experience, but also just the Lord's hand was really evident, you know, really clear throughout the whole thing. But we ended up having to go to an ER, and I mean a rural ER is no joke.

Speaker 2 8:25

There's not a lot, you know, it's just like not a lot of options for you there. And when we were there I thought maybe I had a kidney stone or something.

Speaker 2 8:31

I really just had no idea and yeah but I just knew I was having a hard time walking. I just couldn't function really. I did ride the Polar Express because I didn't want to take that away from the kids, yeah. But after that in hindsight it's like, why did we do that? But after that Matt and I go to this ER center where they were really sweet but they just didn't have any equipment. But what came back? While we were there is they told me.

Speaker 2 8:56

They asked me if I knew that I was pregnant, which I did not know. We had been trying at that point for about a year and I wasn't pregnant with this. We already had our two kids. At this point and I was like no, I mean not that I know of. And so, kind of in that same breath, they told us that we were pregnant and also that we were likely losing the baby.

Speaker 2 9:16

But they couldn't tell us anything because they didn't have an ultrasound machine at this hospital, and so I ended up having to take a 45-minute ambulance ride to a really big, really good hospital actually in North Atlanta. So we end up going there and they do confirm that I had had an ectopic pregnancy and what that means is that the egg had gotten stuck in one of my fallopian tubes and so they were going to need to go in and surgically remove it because the two it had ruptured, which a lot of the times for women when that happens it can be I mean you you can have a pretty small window of um time before it's life-threatening, and so that wasn't my experience. It had already ruptured, but I was my. They said my pelvis was filling up with blood. But it wasn't the type of thing where I was near death, you know, at that point.

Speaker 2 10:09

But there was just a lot to process. It was a lot to learn in a really short amount of time. So I immediately went into surgery and they ended up having to take one of my tubes out. But even before that, you know, they're telling us you may have to have a partial history. I mean, they're just kind of giving us worst case scenario. We don't really know until we get in there. So I have the surgery and I'm in a different state and I wake up, I know, and so we spend the next couple of days recovering there and then we flew back home and I think there are a lot of things that I could say about that particular experience.

Speaker 2 10:44

There was a lot of things for Matt and I to process and just it all happened really fast. But I think there were just a couple of kind of takeaways. One of the first ones was the sovereignty of the Lord and where I happened to have the miscarriage, or where you know where this experience happened. The hospital was just so great, the nursing staff was so helpful, they were so validating of hey, we know that this was traumatizing and we believe that this was a life that was you know, and and just really validating the fact that I felt that way and my body yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 11:18

And my body. You know, after something like that happens, you recover as though you just had a baby. It's the same recovery process as it is after you deliver, and so just having them really affirm that was really helpful and, to be really frank, that's not necessarily the experience I would have had if that had happened in Colorado. So just the fact that I was in this really sweet place with these people and they were just very affirming. But the other thing that happened is our church just showed up for us. I mean, I couldn't lift anything for a while. You know, there's just all these things, all these rules while you're recovering and then emotionally recovering, and we just had people in our home that were helping with our kids, that were bringing us food, that were praying for us and just doing all of the things that the church needs to do and I think that experience really gave us a confidence in God's people and just the way that the Lord really shows up through his church.

Speaker 2 12:16

That's what he designed his church to do, and so I think that was just a really sweet reminder for us of the Lord, because at the time we'd only been here for two years, but I think we just felt so bonded here after that so it was really good. And then the other kind of opportunity that we got it it it's crazy to think back on it. It feels like it was a lifetime ago.

Speaker 2 12:39

You know, it's actually wasn't that long ago, but I remember we had to tell our kids and my daughter was five at the time, my oldest daughter and she just was. So it's amazing how the Lord just, they understand more than you think that they do and we told them and we were really able to share with them like we believe this was a baby and I think the way I phrased it with her was that the baby didn't make. It was what we said and you know she'll still talk about that and she really. It gave us just a really good opportunity to show her.

Speaker 2 13:12

But we really trust the Lord in this and you know, we know you want to have a sibling, but that's just not what God ordained in this time. But we believe that God cared about this baby it. But we believe that God cared about this baby, he cares for this baby, he cares about you, and so I don't know. I think that really taught me a lot about her and just her emotional capacity and awareness and that was really. It ended up being really sad, but it was very sweet to kind of see and to really bring them into that and walk together as a family. It was a unique opportunity that I'm thankful that we had. I mean, obviously I wish I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but I do think that the Lord just redeemed a lot of aspects of it for sure.

Speaker 1 13:51

Wow, Thanks for sharing that. I'm so sorry for you guys' loss and so cool to see God do so much in your family and His providence and where you were in rural Georgia then North Atlanta.

Speaker 2 14:04

My world was crazy, yeah, crazy.

Speaker 1 14:09

Thanks for being willing to share that.

Speaker 2 14:10

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 14:12

Kind of taking a hard right turn.

Speaker 1 14:16

You serve as a slight hard right. You serve as the director of ministry content for a faith and work organization called Women in Work, which you mentioned, which exists to see women confidently step into their God-given calling and view their work as meaningful to the kingdom of God, and you contributed to the writing and editing of a book called Women and Work bearing God's image and joining in his mission through our work. So bouncing off of those two amazing things, and maybe you can share more about the work of women and work through this answer. But God has made you passionate about the conversation centered around image bearing slash faith and work slash sacred and secular. So talk to us about your thoughts on this. Explain what those words mean, why you're passionate about this idea and why this is such an important conversation. Tell us all the things.

Speaker 2 15:10

Right, I know I could talk about this all day, so I'll try to keep it the same.

Speaker 1 15:14

I love it. I love it. No, you don't have to.

Speaker 2 15:17

Basically, the organization was founded by my friend. Her name is actually also Courtney Amazing. Honestly, the entire reason that we participate in this work or do anything with it is just to help women catch a vision that what you do actually does matter. It matters in God's kingdom. And so the whole work, faith conversation, is built around the Genesis 1 and 2 narrative in the creation story that God gave Adam and Eve the creation mandate. He gave them a job to do, and that was before the fall.

Speaker 2 15:54

And I think sometimes we can work through the lens of after sin enters the world, where sin just affects everything, and so our work can feel really toilsome, can feel really difficult, and it is difficult. You know, part of the Genesis 3 story is a curse on our work, that the ground will produce thorns and thistles. But work was part of God's plan for his people before sin. He always intended for people to work. He tells Adam and Eve to multiply, to subdue the earth, to exercise dominion over it. He's always given them a job to do and something to cultivate. And so I think, just trying to help in our organization, women specifically catch the vision that God has given all of us a job to do, one of the ways that God is bringing about his kingdom on earth is actually through our work, and so you can cultivate, you get to bear his image while you're working. God is the worker right, he's a perfect example of a worker. He is a creator, he's a sustainer, he's all of the things. And so when you are literally doing work, it's a way that you're reflecting who God is and reflecting his glory. But another thing is that God actually invites us to participate in the world that he made and in the work that he does. He could do everything himself. Obviously, god is all powerful, but he invites his people and in doing that, he gifts people differently. He affords different opportunities, all of these different things. And so I think right now, because work is so hard, it's easy to try to separate the job that you do from the spiritual life that you live, and what we want to do is build a bridge between the two and say, hey, you can actually worship the Lord in the work that you're doing. You could actually honor him in the way that you're utilizing your gifts in the way that you're using, and I don't just mean sharing the gospel while you're at work, although that can certainly be part of it. But I mean literally in the task you're doing, you're bringing glory to him and you're worshiping him. So that's kind of the big, big picture of the work-faith conversation.

Speaker 2 18:02

And then, I think, specifically casting this vision for women. You know, there are seasons of life as women that are. If you are a mom, if you're a wife and a mom if you are single, whatever it may be, it's going to manifest itself totally differently, but there can just feel. There can be seasons that feel like everything you're doing is toilsome. When I had really little babies I felt exhausted by the end of the day but I felt like I had nothing to show for the work of my you know it's like, oh well, I got him to bed.

Speaker 2 18:31

You know, you feel like the things are so small, and so I think just the idea of even in the really small ways, like there's a book called the Liturgy of the Ordinary by Tish Harrison Warren.

Speaker 1 18:44

She talks about it's so good, so good.

Speaker 2 18:47

She has an example in there about making your bed and how making your bed is a way that you're bringing order from chaos. You know there's like really small ways that we can do that.

Speaker 2 18:57

Yeah, and there's really big ways we can do that too. But I think, even as a young mom, I just really needed to hear that, hey, what you're doing at home is also work and it also matters, and God sees it and he's using it. And there are different. There are ways that you can honor him in what you're doing, and so we are from a theologically conservative background. We are theologically conservative and I think a lot of the times in those particular circles, the conversation of work and women is wrought with controversy Should a woman work outside the home? Should they stay home with their kids? Should they do both? Should they whatever? And we're really not here to tell you what you should or shouldn't do in that way. It's more so. You need to obey the Lord in whatever season that you're in and you need to honor Him in whatever it season that you're in, and you need to honor him in whatever it is that you're doing, and so your family can make a decision. That's going to be best for whatever is best for you guys. But how are you honoring the Lord with the gifts he's given you and just your daily tasks that you've been given? So, yeah, that's what we do. That's kind of the big picture of what we try to vision. I guess you could say that we try to cast, we try to vision. I guess you could say that we try to cast.

Speaker 2 20:03

But we have a podcast and obviously we have the book that you mentioned, which that was huge, it was really fun. It was a contributor book and we had a bunch of different women from all walks of life contributing different things, but we also just do written content. You know, we just try to do things that are going to encourage you in your work. I think a lot of the times, a lot of the narrative around this conversation can be reminding women about how hard everything is, which we're here to do. That we want to acknowledge the hard, but also we really want it to be inspiring and encouraging, like, hey, you actually God equipped you for this task, whatever it is and in a unique way, and you can honor him in the way that you're participating in those things. And we want to encourage you that work can, even though it's toilsome, it can be really beautiful.

Speaker 2 20:50

And you can learn so much about who the Lord is through it. So yeah, that's a big picture.

Speaker 1 20:56

Two questions Did I see that you guys have some in-person things too? And then also I saw on your guys' website which I thought was so cool you guys recognizing so many different women in their workplace and how they're bringing glory to God. That was like so cool to read through.

Speaker 2 21:10

Yeah, it's really fun, so it's funny. You know COVID messes up so many things, so we used to host an in-person event. What we would do is, the whole way the organization was started was to give women. This is really niche. It's really niche, but at the Southern Baptist Convention at the time, there was only one event for women and it was just for pastor's wives, which is great. It's great to have that. But Cordy really wanted to have an event that encompassed a broader range of women, because it's not only pastor's wives that attend, and so we hosted several for several years at the SBC, we would host a gathering, essentially where you'd have a speaker or a panel.

Speaker 2 21:49

Yeah, where we could talk to women, which was really fun. Right now we don't have anything on the books for 2024, just COVID really threw a wrench in all the things, and so we continued to do it for two years, but it just made us kind of rethink. What does it look like to gather with women together, and how do you do that best? Is it locally just kind of encouraging women to do this, or do you? Have a big conference.

Speaker 2 22:12

You know there's a lot of different options there but right now we are going to be at we're really excited about this we're going to be at the Gospel Coalition Women's Conference this summer, in June, which is really fun, yeah, so they usually do at least one or two sessions that are related to work for breakouts, and so we'll be at those, and then we'll have a booth, which honestly it sounds lame, but a booth is such a fun way to get to know a lot of different women.

Speaker 1 22:36

Sounds like my dream come true.

"Balancing" Motherhood and Work Life

Speaker 2 22:38

Oh, it's really fun and those are like our people and so we're excited to get to be there in person. And we've done a couple other things. We've been at different, you know, other women's events, kind of all over, but that's kind of our big one for this summer which we're really excited about. And then, yeah, we had this initiative called Work Done Well, where you can nominate a woman and just someone that you think is honoring the Lord well in their work, and so it was really fun, it was really well received. Just do a little interview and just a feature and it's just ordinary women doing faithful work and honoring them and showing them that what they do matters and so that's really fun and, honestly, the podcast is really similar.

Speaker 2 23:18

We have a really wide range of guests, but I mean, several of the women that we interview on there are just normal everyday women working as a nurse or as an esthetician or, as you know, whatever, a teacher or whatever it may be, and just asking questions about like man how do you image God while you're doing this?

Speaker 2 23:34

What do you love about it? You know what's good about it and what's hard, and so it's been good. I think sometimes women just need to be reminded that they're not alone, and other women are doing this too, and women just need to be reminded that they're not alone and other women are doing this too, and, yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1 23:48

What encouragement do you have for the woman who is having a hard time believing that her work is meaningful to the kingdom of God? And I also, I just feel like what you kind of spoke to this a little not actually, but there's just, there's not. I feel like more and more things, people are starting to have this conversation more and more, by God's grace, you guys probably being some of the people leading the way too, but before, like a decade ago, you know especially but even in the last like five years, it's starting to be talked about more. But there is this underlying thing, whether it's actually happening or not, where women can feel like gosh, what we're doing doesn't matter or there's a lower place for us, when that's not what the Bible says. That's not true. But yeah, what encouragement do you have?

Speaker 2 24:40

And yeah, yeah, I think all of us, myself included, can be tempted. I mean, right now my job involves a lot of just some tediousness with, you know, with spreadsheets or just reminders or whatever, and it's like man this feels really toilsome, yeah. But I think you know, one of my, one of our theme verses actually at Women in Work, but even mine specifically, is in Colossians 3, I think, reorienting our minds to remember what does the Bible actually tell us?

Speaker 2 25:11

that we do and it says, as I have it pulled up, Colossians 3, 17,. It says whatever you do in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Speaker 2 25:24

I think that's just a beautiful picture that I mean. It says every single thing that you do, whatever it is. Whatever you say, whatever you do, you need to be doing it in the name of the Lord and you need to be giving thanks to God for that and, I think, reorienting your mind, sharpening your mind to be reflective of what does God's word say about this. It can be really easy for all of us to believe that our work is not meaningful, but that's not what the Bible says, and so it's more just. Am I saturating my mind with truth? Am I filling it up with?

Speaker 1 25:56

truth.

Speaker 2 25:56

And when I am believing a lie, I need to replace it with something that's true. And so we have this conversation all the time with women who, you know, they really don't think that their work matters, and it's like, no, it really. Not only does it matter a little bit, it matters a lot. God has a plan for it, and he has a plan for the season that you're in and the giftings that you've been given. And so, yeah, I would say I mean it sounds very, you know, Christianese to say it like that, but I really do think that it's just a matter of reorienting your mind to believe truth.

Speaker 1 26:28

Yeah, 100%. And I think, women it can be easy to think, probably men and women like, if you're not doing a vocation evangelistic thing, that it's not just as valuable and that's just simply not true. Because, gosh, I even me and my brother have a little Christian apparel business together. My brother is a CPA and he's the numbers guy and he's oh my gosh, the business would not go if he wasn't.

Speaker 1 27:01

God didn't gift him in numbers and that's for everything for accountants, for teachers, for engineers, like every single person God has gifted so uniquely and specifically, and every single gift is vastly important, because if there were, if we only had, pastors or worship leaders in the world, you know God needs to do all these other things over here and bring order out of chaos, and all are equally valuable and so important. And I think we can often forget that, like you said, when we're not saturating our minds with truth. So, as a mom, two, three girls under seven and I'm personally wondering this what does it look like in your life to balance being a mom while working hard in the other areas of work that God has called you to? Have you found specific rhythms or things helpful, or maybe helpful questions you ask yourself. Please share all the wisdom with me.

Speaker 2 27:59

Yeah, I mean, it's funny.

Speaker 2 28:01

you know, balance is such a myth there's just always it really is you know, there's just going to be seasons of your life that are more heavily weighted in some areas than others, and for us, even with our kids, it's like there are seasons that they require so much more from us emotionally than other seasons. You know more from us emotionally than other seasons, you know, and so I think one of the things for me that I've had to learn over the years is that balance is just not always. Sometimes it's a day to day. Not every day is perfectly balanced. There are some days where I work more than others, and there are some days where.

Balancing Motherhood and Work Life

Speaker 2 28:38

I work less more than others, and I think that that's really something that you just have to keep in mind.

Speaker 2 28:44

As a mom and worker, it's just part of it, but the other thing I think that we can do unintentionally I talk about this in the book, just a little bit about calling is we can view callings in a hierarchy. You actually were just talking about this. One of my kind of big soapboxes is that there's no hierarchy of calling in God's kingdom. Everyone is called to different things in different seasons and the Lord uses all of it and it's all important. And so one of the things, one of the lies in the book I refer to as a myth that I think we can tell other women or even ourselves, and a lot of the times it's born out of a desire to encourage. But we can say something like motherhood is the highest calling and so you need to devote all of your energy and time needs to go to motherhood. Well, a lot of the times you're being told that because you're struggling and people are reminding you, what you do matters Totally, but what you're unintentionally saying in that moment is like, oh well, if you're not, if you're never a mom, you're never going to experience this high calling that I've experienced, you know, and I think that's just not true. And so one of the things that's important for even my kids to see in my life is that God has given me a job as a way to provide for our family. It's a form of provision, it's a means of grace. So there are times where mom needs to focus on this task because I'm working and I'm going to set aside time for you, but I have to do this first, and it teaches them that work is valuable. It doesn't mean that they're any less valuable, but it does mean that our whole, you know, afternoon is not going to revolve around their one specific need. You know there are other, there are bigger things going on, and so I think for me that's been really helpful.

Speaker 2 30:35

My kids are very familiar with work now and very familiar with what it looks like when I have my computer at the dining room table or whatever it may be, and I think that that's good. I think it's important for them to know that this is, like I said, it's a means of grace and it's a means of provision. I would say for me, just getting really practical, I myself I'm an Enneagram three and so I can just kind of go, go, go, go, go, go, go. You know, and I think for me the thing, one of the most helpful things, has been to put a boundary up on. Okay, I'm going to stop working at this time and I'm going to set it aside, and if I'm not done with my work for the day, I'm going to wait until the kids go to bed and then I'll work for another hour or whatever. It may be Just having some parameters, because otherwise I can accidentally be kind of in and out of my email all day you know, and then the other.

Speaker 2 31:26

So that's a really kind of a practical thing. And then another thing would be there are times where I need to get out of my house, I need to do something, I need to figure out a way. So one it's this is kind of a silly example, but our gym is a recreation center, and so what I'll do is they have childcare there for two hours. This is kind of a silly example, but our gym is a recreation center, and so what I'll do is they have child care there for two hours, and so I can take my kids up there. They'll have a really fun time, and I'll spend an hour and a half of that working and 30 minutes of it working out, you know, and that's a really easy way to utilize that time well where my kids are being engaged.

Speaker 2 32:01

I'm not just putting on a TV show or something, but I'm also trying to utilize the time really well. So those are really just practical things, but it looks different in different seasons. With a newborn it's totally different than with a seven-year-old.

Speaker 2 32:13

My seven-year-old's a first grade. She's at school. When she was a baby, it was totally different than it looks now. So just being willing to be really flexible and really asking for help would be. I guess the last thing to say about that is pressing into your community and just admitting like that you need help. I need you to help me with the kids today. I need you to help me whatever.

Speaker 2 32:36

I think one of the things my husband and I've had to learn too is we live in a very expensive place and so we do both have to work, and we both have to work full time, so I can sometimes accidentally default into. Well, I work remotely. My job's more flexible, so I'm going to just be the one to always be finding childcare. I'm going to be the one that's always rearranging my schedule so that I can get this done. But my husband has really helped me like hey, we're doing this together. I can also be flexible. I can also do this thing, I can rearrange some things, or I can be the one. He has our daughter right now. So that's been something like having a husband that's also really on board and bought into your what God has given you to do and to steward well has made all the difference, for us for sure.

Understanding Calling and Discipleship

Speaker 1 33:28

Praise the Lord. That's so cool. And you said you wrote a chapter on calling. Is that right In the book? I did.

Speaker 2 33:34

Yeah, I wrote a chapter on calling.

Speaker 2 33:36

Yeah, and it's basically. It's really it's kind of a broad overview, but it's just on what does it actually mean to be called? I think we throw around the word calling a lot of the times but it doesn't have a ton of actual biblical backing with the way that we talk about it. So it sort of outlines what is calling and then there's a little section in there on the myth of calling and it goes through five different lies or myths around the word that just kind of try to dispel that and counteract it with some truth from God's word and then it gets really practical. Because a big question I'm sure that you have thought this, I've thought this is has God called me to X?

Speaker 1 34:14

So, whatever it, may be this job.

Speaker 2 34:16

Should I leave my job and start somewhere else? Should I whatever? And so, in there, just try to outline some really basic things to pray through as you're trying to discern the Lord's will for whatever it is that you're praying, if you're called to or not. And so, yeah, that was really fun to write because I do think that, especially going through seminary or whatever, I think that there's just a lot of conversation around calling that is a lot more culturally influenced than biblically influenced, and so what does the Bible actually say?

Speaker 1 34:46

about calling and what we should do here. So, yeah, what are, if you can remember them off the top of your head. What is one or two of the myths that around calling?

Speaker 2 34:56

Yeah, one of the ones was what I said about the highest calling with motherhood. Another one is that once called, always called. So basically this idea that you're so, say you're I have no, I'm literally just throwing an example out there but say that you're a nurse and you feel like the Lord is calling you to maybe change professions, but it's like, well, but I did all this work and now I'm a nurse and I can't change what I, what I'm going to do, or a lot of the times it's going to happen in ministry too, where it's like, well, I felt called into ministry at a young age and there's no way that that can change, and so I'm just trying to reorient that God actually does utilize calling and vocation in seasons. And the example I use in there is of David, and just talk about all the different things that David did.

Speaker 2 35:39

He was a shepherd, he was a musician, he was a king, he was a warrior and God. Those are all really different and he had to utilize the gifts in different ways in each of those different seasons and sometimes they overlapped. But just being willing to be open to the idea that you may be called to something for a season and then the Lord may ask you to lay it down for another season.

Speaker 1 36:01

So those are the two. Those are kind of the two big ones off the top of my head that I remember, yeah, and even like thinking about David, like even after he was called to be king, he was told he was going to be king. Was it 30 years later?

Speaker 2 36:15

It was like it was a long time later that he became king, exactly, he had to wait a long time, and in the middle of that he served in a bunch of other different ways. Yeah, absolutely so good.

Speaker 1 36:25

Yeah, that's so helpful. Okay, so God has also made you passionate about discipleship and theological equipping for women, as you co-teach the women's Bible study at your church, which I heard you're fantastic at.

Speaker 2 36:37

Well, I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 1 36:40

So let's start with discipleship. What is discipleship? Why is discipleship so important, and what has discipleship maybe giving and receiving looked like slash? How has it impacted your own life?

Speaker 2 36:55

Yeah, well, it's funny that you ask about discipleship, because we actually are, you know, literally at the church where our pastor wrote the book on the topic. So Storyline Church is amazing.

Speaker 2 37:07

Yeah, it is pastored by JT English, and so he wrote a book called Deep Discipleship. That really maps out our church's vision for what discipleship is. But discipleship, or being a disciple, he talks about it being threefold. So the first one is to be considered a disciple is that you're adopted, you know that you're actually a believer. That makes you a disciple. But then the other two parts, even when it comes to a more practical way, is formation, and that's a huge part of what we do here. And then the kind of third arm of that is just being empowered by God to live. And how do we live? So adoption, formation and empowerment, and so that's discipleship really.

Speaker 2 37:50

Simply, we use Matthew 28 as the guide for that. That Jesus tells his disciples the one actual command in the original language from that is make disciples. And so in doing that we are learning ourselves how to live, how to grow in godliness, and then we're also supposed to teach others how to live, how to grow in godliness, who God is. And so I'm really passionate about discipleship just because God's really passionate about it and that's the way that he has chosen. You know one of the things that Lindsay she's the executive director at Storyline, one of the things that she actually we were just talking about this and she just said this morning is, god could have chosen any way in the world, any way for his world to work, but the way that he has chosen to equip his people is through teaching and it's through his word, and so those are the means that God has given us. And so we want to, you know, we want to honor him in the way that we do that.

Speaker 2 38:48

And so I would say, the way that it looks in our life and formation here, in my life here and at Storyline, is women's Bible study, just being an active learner, being really willing to participate in that. And then there's a community portion of it too, where there's living life alongside of one another. Do people know you? Are people able to call you out? Do you know others? Are you in other people's lives? And so I would say, the biggest example I have of discipleship is actually, you know, storyline does a really great job with this. But growing up at my home church, there was a woman named Anna that, when I was 13, just began to disciple me.

Speaker 2 39:25

She was on staff at the church at the time and there were me and just a handful of other girls that would meet with her one-on-one and she just taught us how to study the Bible, how to think about wisdom in our life.

Speaker 2 39:37

you know to ask her questions about boys and relationships and whatever else, and it was like helping me figure out how to live my life in a way that honored the Lord. And so her, and then, and so I. She was my mentor, my, she discipled me from when I was in middle school until I graduated high school, and then now I would say that that relationship has turned into such a friendship and such a mutual encouragement where um yeah, we just have such a history with one another, but so much of it was God's word is the center, and then how do we promote holy living with one another?

Speaker 2 40:09

And so, yeah, if I hadn't had her, honestly I don't know where I would be today, because she really taught me. Yeah, and it's encouraging to me too. It's like, okay, who am I pouring investing into? Who? Am I helping form in that way.

Speaker 1 40:24

So yeah, that's super encouraging. So it would probably be fair to say and this is not a new thing that we are probably not a disciple of Jesus if we are not making disciples.

Speaker 2 40:37

Yeah, sure, absolutely.

Speaker 1 40:39

And I love a few things that you said that I loved how you said being an active learner. I just love that which really comes with a spirit of humility that you know. God, help us to know that we have something to learn from everyone in the room every time we step in to one. And then I love how you said you're living life alongside people. Do people know you? Do you know people? Because I don't know about you? This is also not new, but like when I'm by myself, I'm pretty great and I'm pretty sinless, like I'm doing so great.

Speaker 2 41:14

Totally yeah.

Speaker 1 41:15

It's when my life rubs up against someone else's and I see my maybe snarkiness or my harsh, my quick words hurt someone, or vice versa. That's when God's showing me my sin and then, yeah, just that encouragement as you're talking, I'm sure whoever's listening just that encouragement of the her name's, anna right, that discipled you. It's, yeah, asking yourself if you're listening today, god, who is someone in my life that I could disciple? Because there one. If you are a part of the local church, in a church body which, god willing, you are, if you're not get involved, there are people around you that you could disciple. There are people in your life that God has placed there specifically for you to love on, for you to encourage. And the last thing that I love that you said God's word was always at the center of you and Anna's relationship. That's key.

Speaker 1 42:07

I think people like some gals, some college gals that I walk with, just getting to encourage them. Hey, I'm not doing anything special here. We're reading God's word together and God does the rest. You could just as easily do this. This isn't a I'm called to lead you guys, and I'm a great discipler. No, it is God's word being at the center, like you said, and his spirit, then moving through his word that's alive and active. So whoever's listening to this too. If you're like gosh, I'm just not the girl for the job, you don't have to be, because the spirit's in you and you are the word does the work.

Speaker 1 42:46

God's calling you to make disciples, like you were saying. It's such a clear command. It's not a oh, maybe I'll talk to people about Jesus and we'll hopefully pursue holiness through his word. No, like it's a command. So I pray right now that God would give this sweet conviction, which we praise the Lord for conviction. I pray that he would spur something in whoever's listening. God, who are you wanting me to disciple? And it literally looks like hey, do you want to get together and read John together? And then, what is this telling me about God? What's this telling me about man? Like it doesn't have to be this. It's not this big, huge thing. The pressure is off, like you and I talked about earlier. Yeah, absolutely, god's going to do it. God's going to do it. So, if you're listening to this, ask God okay, who are you wanting me to disciple to simply read his word with that's right.

Speaker 1 43:37

Yeah, but I'm so encouraged by so many things that you said Okay. So now to equipping women theologically. Please define theology and tell us why theology is important.

Speaker 2 43:49

Yeah, well, I mean, theology is just really basic. It's just the study of God, and the reason why theology matters is because we want to know God, we want to know him.

Speaker 1 43:58

We want to be able to.

Speaker 2 43:59

We can't be like him if we don't know him, and so it's not as scary as it sounds Like the study being a theologian, being someone that's a student of theology, is really just somebody who's studying who God is.

Speaker 2 44:14

Student of theology is really just somebody who's studying who God is, and if we love God Jen Wilkin talks about we become what we behold. Right, we're not going to be able to be like him if we're not beholding him, and so that's why I think it's just important I think it can be really tempting in the church to just be a recipient and just be someone that is which is good to receive the word that's being preached, but there's a responsibility for every believer to know who God is, and so it's just really just a matter of studying his word.

Speaker 1 44:45

Yeah, so good. What advice or encouragement do you have for a woman or man today who longs to grow deeper in their theology but doesn't know where to begin and kind of like you said? I think some people that word can scare them and it can feel like almost some people like push away from it, no, we just need. It's all about relationship. It totally is. And, like you said before, we can't have a relationship with someone we don't know. No, that's right.

Deepening Understanding of God's Word

Speaker 2 45:11

I would say, you know, I think, yeah, I think the question you asked is like what are some advice or you know things, that where do you begin? I would say one of the temptations is that we begin somewhere outside of God's word. And really the beginning is actually saturating your life and your mind with God's word. So you can begin really simply by just listening. There's something at. The dwell app is an example.

Speaker 2 45:36

The Bible app has an option, too, where you're just taking in God's word, you're listening to it, you're reading it out loud and you're studying it. It's one of the things that I do, even when I'm preparing to teach women's Bible study, is I'll listen to the text a bunch of different times and I'll just write down things, observations like that I'm noticing, what am I noticing here? Or questions that I have like what does this mean, or where did this come from?

Speaker 2 45:59

Or this is a quote from the Old Testament when is that and what's that story? And just begin to be a student in that way. Ask yourself the question of what does the text say?

Speaker 2 46:10

And then, what does the text mean? This is how we approach discipleship here or any kind of Bible study here is we ask these three questions what does it say, what does it mean and how does it change me? And so that's just a really basic framework that you can start with, and I think that having a plan is also really helpful, whether it's I'm going to read the Bible in two years or a year I'm going to go through the book of John or whatever it may be. Having some sort of plan of this is what I'm going to have a focused time on is also really helpful. So I would start with God's word. But the other thing is there are just so many resources available to us that you know we can look up and so really taking hold of those and utilizing them as much as you can. But step one is just to actually start with becoming familiar with God's word and learning how to ask good questions and where to find the answers, and sometimes living in the tension that we don't know.

Speaker 1 47:02

Yeah, like we don't know the answer to this, and we're not really sure what to say.

Speaker 1 47:06

Yeah, I was a part of a women's Bible study this last fall and I loved the leader of it said we're fighting to be curious, we're not fighting to be perfect, and I think, as a woman, I needed to be reminded of that and I was like, oh, because she was just like fight to be the most curious person and I think maybe the tension of our we compare, our sin tendency maybe is to compare and like want to have so much knowledge. Or and I just loved that it freed me up so much I was like what if every time I opened God's word it was just and in community especially, what are the questions I have not? Oh, I don't want anyone to think I don't know this. No, what if?

Speaker 2 47:48

we like fight it, yeah, or I need to know all the things?

Speaker 1 47:50

Yes, because you don't and we won't. Like you said, what advice or encouragement do you have for the person who does love theology and wants to dive even deeper? Is the advice the same, and what tangible tools or resources apart from the Bible would you recommend or have you found helpful?

Speaker 2 48:08

Totally Well. So in thinking about this, there's so many good resources? Yeah, so in thinking about this, there's so many good resources? Yeah, but just kind of off the cuff, the Gospel Coalition website has free Bible commentaries on there that you can just access totally for free on a bunch of different books of the Bible. I think those are really helpful. They give you an overview, but then you can go deeper and deeper in those, so that would be one.

Speaker 2 48:35

There's also a series that Crossway came out with called the Knowing the Bible series, and their little booklets, and they're meant to. You can do them by yourself or you can do them with others, and we did some with college students years ago now on the book of Romans. It is really good. It takes you deeper than just kind of. It takes you some steps deeper, but they're really helpful and they're through all kinds of books. I think they have them now for almost every book of the Bible. But another really cool resource that I don't know if that many people take advantage of is Reformed Theological Seminary, or RTS has an app that you can download and actually on their app they have a bunch of their actual courses classes that are totally free, and you get like the syllabus and their teaching videos on there and they allow you to kind of dive deeper into things like church history or whatever it may be.

Resources for Spiritual Growth and Reflection

Speaker 2 49:22

They have some theology courses too, and that's a really great resource. That's just right there available to you. Another one would be podcasts are really great. It's just a good way to be learning as you're going, because you know we're just in the car or whatever. So, obviously Knowing Faith is a really great podcast with JT English, Kyle Worley and Jen Wilkin, and they just kind of talk through all kinds of big theological concepts and sometimes they get really deep into certain ones too. I love the Bible. Recap with Tara.

Speaker 1 49:54

Lee Cobble certain ones too.

Speaker 2 49:57

I love the Bible recap with Tara Lee Cobble. They're only 10 minutes, you know, but they highlight big theological truths that I think can be really helpful if you're trying to learn about the context of the whole Bible. But I think the other kind of thing some of my favorite pastors to listen to would be like Tim Keller, Ray Ortland, any of the nine marks pastors there are just so many wise men that are shepherds, that preach from God's word that can help you to really understand something major.

Speaker 2 50:25

And then obviously for me it's just reading. I mean, there are so many good books available. If you have some kind of theological concept you're really passionate about, there's definitely a book about it. Yeah, that's true. Amazing, you know.

Speaker 1 50:40

so those are just a few resources that are free, kind of off the top of my head. Yeah, super helpful. Okay, what is a lie that you've believed that God has had to, or maybe still is, uprooting in your heart, and what gospel truth has he been reminding you, or did he remind you?

Speaker 2 50:56

to squash that lie. I think I mentioned this earlier that I'm an Enneagram three. I think Enneagram threes can have a tendency or this is true of me, I should say to believe that I'm infinite. Right, I can do everything, I don't need to have any limits, I can say yes to all the things, I can participate in all the things and do them all really well. I think one of the things that the Lord has been really helping me with over the last few years is that I'm not infinite. Only God is infinite. Only God can care about every single need in the world.

Speaker 2 51:29

We're people. We can't shoulder every burden of every person, but God can, and I think, even when it comes to time, when it comes to seasons, all of those things, just recognizing that I have limits, I am not infinite and that's how God designed me and I need to. Macy English, our pastor's wife, uses this analogy of a garden that God's giving you, a garden, and a garden has boundaries and you have to work within the boundaries that God's given you and so stewarding those responsibilities well, but also realizing that I have limits and sometimes I need to reevaluate that and I need to change something up because I can't just do everything and I don't need to. Yeah, not only can I not, but I also don't really need to.

Speaker 1 52:10

That's so helpful. What is the best advice you've ever received? Best is a strong word, but what's up there? That's so hard I know.

Speaker 2 52:19

I am not 100% sure if this is the best answer, but for me personally, one of the things that I come back to a lot is to read really good books. I think that one of the things that as a communicator, as a teacher, just as a person in general God communicates to his people so much through good stories, and I think that when we read good stories. It can be so inspiring. It can help us communicate true things about. God.

Speaker 2 52:49

even if they're not stories, that are Christian stories there are gospel things that you can pull out of all kinds of different stories. And so for me it was not being afraid to just read and to immerse yourself in good stories and listen to good storytellers. So I know that's not like something super practical, but I think it's helpful for me, that's super helpful.

Speaker 1 53:10

What off the top of your head? Are there a few stories that come to mind that have really inspired you and sparked your imagination. Oh my gosh, there's so many things. I need to hear them. I need them. I know what do I need to read. I love reading One of the.

Speaker 2 53:25

I remember so vividly the first time I read East of Eden by Steinbeck. It is just a beautiful story and the way that he writes is just I don't know. It feels like you're literally living in the story. So I really love that book. I think it's a beautiful kind of picture, one of the things I think that might be unique. Not all people like books like this, but for me it doesn't have to be a story that has this grand like okay, now there's a climax and then there's this drama and then it results.

Speaker 2 53:57

It doesn't have to be like that. You can just be a well-told story, and so I think that that is one, just off the top of my head, that I love. I think it's really inspiring, I love the way he communicates and I think it's simple but it's really beautiful and you can kind of get engrossed in it.

Speaker 1 54:12

I love that. What is a piece of scripture the Lord is currently using to encourage, exhort or convict you with? Lately?

Speaker 2 54:18

Man, there's so many that.

Speaker 2 54:19

I could say here but I think James 3 has been something that's been just coming up a lot about.

Speaker 2 54:25

You know, teaching in women's Bible study.

Speaker 2 54:28

Actually, I think one of the rapid-fire questions is about one of your favorite verses, which is also in James 3.

Speaker 2 54:34

Rapid fire questions is about your one of your favorite verses, which is also in James three, but just the whole concept of how powerful our words are and how we just need to be so careful with them. I think for me, I feel the weight of that when I stand I'm teaching women's Bible study this Thursday and we have about 475 women that participate in women's Bible study and I'm just thinking I can actually lead someone astray in something that I am saying, and so just feeling the weight of how powerful that is has been something that has just been really present on my mind as I'm preparing for that. And it's true in our lives too, even in my dealings with my own kids, like I can be quick to anger or quick to rebuke or whatever it may be, and that can actually impact them so deeply. So just how important it is to tame our tongues in that way is just something that's actually just been on my mind for the last couple weeks, so convicting.

Speaker 1 55:26

So convicting? Okay, someone is out there. Someone is out there listening to this and, god willing, maybe for the first time, thinking I want to respond to the gospel, I want to know and follow Jesus. What is a tangible next step for them? What advice do you have for them?

Speaker 2 55:42

Oh man, I mean, to me, number one thing is to go find a local church.

Speaker 2 55:49

If you think that you are understanding or believing the gospel, you have got to get yourself connected to the body and so you need to go find a church, whether it be you're just Googling something that is close by whether you're watching you know whether you're taking your time to decide where that may be. You go to a church that has God's word at the center of it and go talk to someone there. I think that's like number one. Next step is to immediately get yourself plugged into the body.

Speaker 1 56:19

So good, but so helpful. Okay, To wrap up our time together, we have some rapid fire questions. Keyword, rapid keyword fire. Are you ready? Oh yeah, I'm ready. Okay, Most impactful verse on your life all time and you can read it if you have it Okay.

Speaker 2 56:33

It Most impactful verse on your life all time and you can read it if you have it Okay, it's James 3. It's also in James 3. Amazing. So the one I picked for this is 17 and 18. But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

Speaker 1 56:55

Amen.

Speaker 2 56:55

Favorite book all time, harry Potter. It's not even close. Harry Potter is the best book series of all time, and if you were to really ask me which one. It's book three and book six, but I like all of them, I love it.

Speaker 1 57:09

I love it. Favorite song right now it's probably a lame answer.

Speaker 2 57:13

It's everywhere, but I'm loving the Billie Eilish song. What Was I Made For? It was featured in the Barbie movie. It just won a bunch of awards last night.

Speaker 1 57:20

Amazing, it's so beautiful.

Speaker 2 57:21

It's so haunting. I love it. Amazing Favorite song all time Fix you by Coldplay. But honestly this could be 75 different answers, but that's what I said answers.

Speaker 1 57:31

but that's what I said Today. It's fixed you Today. That's what it is, that's right.

Speaker 2 57:35

Favorite food, mexican food, any kind, really.

Speaker 1 57:39

Amazing Favorite Bible teacher to listen to.

Speaker 2 57:50

Jen Wilkin who else you know? She's like one of the best Bible teachers. Unreal Favorite podcast. Okay, this is a hard one for me. One of the podcasts that I really like but they're not recording right now, which I'm really sad about, is called let's Talk.

Speaker 1 57:57

It's Jackie.

Speaker 2 57:58

Hill, perry, melissa, kruger and Jasmine.

Speaker 1 58:00

Oh yeah, the Gospel Coalition one.

Speaker 2 58:02

It's so good. Yeah, yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1 58:05

I mean, are they just taking a break or did?

Speaker 2 58:07

they not really say yeah, they're taking a break, but I Okay.

Speaker 1 58:10

Amazing Something not many people know about you.

Speaker 2 58:13

I never learned how to ride a bike.

Speaker 1 58:16

No way, and you still can't Like you.

Speaker 2 58:18

That's amazing. If you don't learn when you're a kid, you're kind of all hope is kind of love Right, right, okay.

Speaker 1 58:23

What are you loving right now? Could be literally anything.

Speaker 2 58:27

I'm obsessed. Every day I play the New York Times games. Do you know what those are?

Speaker 1 58:37

They're like on there and then they have a game called connections. That's a really fun and I love the little mini crossword.

Speaker 2 58:40

I every like. That's what I do. I love the New York Times.

Speaker 1 58:43

I love that they have all these games. Yeah, it's amazing. Where can our listeners find you? If you want to be found? Where do I want to be found? I'm just kidding, kidding.

Speaker 2 58:53

My Instagram handle is just my name it's Courtney Elaine Powell but also womenworknet is where all the stuff women and work is. We're also on Instagram. Women work underscore, or what is that?

Speaker 1 59:06

I guess it's an underscore net.

Speaker 2 59:07

Yes, yeah we'd love to connect with you if you're interested in kind of the work, faith conversation.

Speaker 1 59:12

So yeah, and I will link their book that they wrote in the show notes too.

Speaker 1 59:17

So go and read that. Courtney, thanks for being with us today. So sweet, learned so much from you, so fun to talk. Yeah, thanks for having me, maddie. It's great. Gosh, what a sweet conversation with Courtney. Loved being reminded.

Speaker 1 59:31

Just her quote there's no hierarchy of calling in God's kingdom. He is using all of it. So whether you're in an office, whether you're in a cubicle or an accountant job, you're an engineer, you're a plumber, you're a stay-at-home mom, you're a nurse, you're a doctor, you're a graphic designer, gosh, god is using your work to bring his name glory. So I just pray that you feel freed up and encouraged today by the ways that God has specifically created you and wired you to bring his name glory. And yeah, and this episode just got me excited about that. So, friends, exciting news I am officially selling my preset, my photography preset. In case you didn't know, I was a photographer, a wedding, senior's, family photographer for seven-ish years and I am selling my preset. So probably by the time you listen to this podcast episode, it will be live on my website. You can find it at maddyschultzco slash preset.

Speaker 1 1:00:27

There are four presets in the pack. You cannot buy them individually. You have to buy the pack and one of the presets. One of the colored presets is specifically tailored for your phone photos. You can totally use the other two on your phone photos too, but there's one specifically tailored for your phone photos. The other two color presets are specifically tailored for raw photos. And then there's a black and white preset that's creamy and delicious and is made for any and all JPEG phone photos, raw photos.

Speaker 1 1:00:54

So also included with your purchase of the Glory Preset Pack is 50 plus minutes of video footage, screen recording of me in real time editing photos. I want to help you get the best use out of these presets that you can. I don't want you to get this preset, put it on your photo and say, wow, this looks nothing like Maddie's photo. Of course your original photo does matter the lighting of it, x, y, z but you can watch me in real time edit 30 different photos, different lighting, different settings, to help you get the best possible use out of the preset, with my commentary and tips in the background. So honestly, it's kind of like a little extra, a little extra education, a little extra class added on there too. So praying that it blesses you and ultimately praying that God may get all the glory from these presets, as we're capturing photos of his glory all around us.

Speaker 1 1:01:42

So, friends, if you would like to hear from me more, you can join my email list, my newsletter. I send out random words of encouragement and truth. That is linked in the show notes and you can also find tons of different resources at maddyschultzco. I have different gospel resources, my different favorite things on there. There's tons of stuff on there. Go check it out. God willing, it is encouraging and, as always, I would love to hear from you. I would love to connect with you. You can reach me at maddie at sunnyand65.com. That's M-A-D-I at sunnyand65.com. Friends, go be bold and love big and we will see you next time.